diana

OK. Granted, I haven't finished reading this thread yet, but I have some thoughts I simply must jot down before they escape me.

The story of Jesus being tempted of Satan never made sense to me, even as a child. If you accept the underlying premise of Jesus being God and therefore "having made the worlds," then how is the offer of "giving you all the kingdoms of this world" a temptation, anyway?

I mean, let's say for a moment that I own Walmart. I'm strolling through my store when someone walks up to me and says, "I'll give you this peppermint candy if you'll kiss my ass, right here and now." Do you think for a moment that I might even possibly say, "Hm...I don't know. That's really tempting...."? Bah.

The only way Jesus could have possibly found any of Satan's offers tempting is if what Satan offered (all the kingdoms of the world, in this case) was somehow more desirable than what Jesus already had. Still doesn't look good for Jesus.

I still fail to understand how it's possible to tempt someone who cannot actually be tempted. I think "doublespeak" is the proper term. It is possible to try to tempt them, I'll grant, but scripture quite plainly does not say this. To say that Jesus was tempted but wasn't really in some way is merely a convenience interpretation. It also means that the temptation wasn't, after all, that big of a deal. It definitely means that he wasn't tempted as we are.

Jesus was not being "tempted" with rock sandwiches, but with the notion of making rocks into fresh bread, this after 40 days of fasting. If he wasn't "tempted" by that I don't think he was 1% human, much less 100% human. He had no desire ("lust") for food?

Actually, after the first three days or so of fasting, one looses one's appetite. One grows progressively weaker, but bread is definitely not something one would eat to break one's fast. Breaking a long (~10 days or more) fast requires "breaking your body back in" with foods that come with their own acids to aid digestion, such as oranges and grapefruits. To break a fast with something as difficult to digest as bread would make one mucho sick.

Of course, this leaves the problem that this wasn't a temptation at all, doesn't it? So what's the big deal?

You create a real problem when you assert that Jesus couldn't be tempted. If that's the case than it really was no big deal for him to live a sinless life. He wasn't human at all if he had no possibility of sin. Of course, there's another huge dilemma here (known as the question of impeccability). If Jesus could have sinned, then he wasn't really divine since God cannot sin. If Jesus could not have sinned, then he wasn't really human since the temptation to sin is at the heart of what it means to be human. IOTW, did Jesus have free will?

Never thought about that one before. Thanks, ex-preacher. I'll add this one to my already extensive repertoire of Logical Problems of Christianity.

And to save you the trouble, Helen:
<Xn answer:> The wisdom of the world is foolishness in God's eyes. </Xn answer>

d

diana

Interesting thoughts, Jon. One comment:

But we are told in Matt. 5:28 that to consider 'sin' even if we do not go through with it, is still sin.

And on the flip-side, if Jesus didn't actually consider the "sins" in question, then Incompetent Boob Satan wasn't pushing the right buttons, and Jesus "resisting" his offers makes quite a boring inconsequential story.

d

-DM-

According to the Bible ...

1SA 16:14-23 Evil spirits can come from God (and be exorcised
with God's help).

IS 45:6-7, LA 3:8, AM 3:6 God is responsible for evil.

--Don--

-DM-

This was the biblical Jesus, the allegedly perfect God/man -- who was anything but humble, in my opinion -- speaking, not a humble human being.

There is no need to wonder. It is more biblical for a Christian to believe that he/she can get rid of problems. (Never mind that what the Bible teaches doesn't correspond with reality.)

---------

MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you
will find. Everyone who asks, receives.

MT 18:19 If two [believers] agree about anything they ask, God
will do it for them.

MT 21:22, MK 11:24 Whatever you ask in prayer, if you have
faith, you will receive it.

JN 14:12-14 Jesus says, "He who believes in me will also do the works I do, and do greater things than these, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it"

JN 16:23 Jesus says: "Whatever you ask in my name, my Father
will give you."

2CO 5:17 If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away.

---------

--Don--

-DM-

MT 7:7-8, LK 11:9-10 Ask and it will be given. Seek and you
will find. Everyone who asks, receives.

MT 21:22, MK 11:24 Whatever you ask in prayer, if you have
faith, you will receive it.

--Don--

-DM-

According to MT 6:28 and LK 12:27, "God" knows our needs and we are not to worry about such things as what we will eat and what we will wear. Unfortunately for the sake of the veracity of what the Bible says that the Gospelists say that Jesus said, Christians freeze to death and starve to death just as non-Christians do.

--Don--

John Paul

Do you see a common theme in these verses? If you read carefully the verses and surrounding ones... you will find that all these claims are made for those who are in the mindset of Christ. Not just two people asking out of nowhere. If you and I get together and ask God for $1 million, it's probably not gonna happen. It might, but highly unlikely. However if we had a productive church that desperately needed to earn say $100,000 to stay "alive" and/or expand to a region of which they felt lead to by God and had prayed about. This $100,000 would probably come to them (not out of the sky mind you, but rather through resources). If this $100,000 were changed to some other numeric value, the probability is greatly increased in the mindset of Christ. When in doubt, watch TBN or go to <a href="http://www.tbn.org" target="_blank">http://www.tbn.org</a> to see an example of such a demand for money. This Network has been given millions to help the cause of furthering the gospel of Christ. Ask "IN CHRIST'S NAME" and this shall be given unto you as well.

The Apostle

John Paul

hmmm How would that work? Typo I'm guessing

Amos

Critical thinking is required.