Stephen T-B

Of course, when the idea of an omnipresent god was first mooted, those who thought it to be reasonable didn’t know about the universe.
They thought the Earth was the bottom layer of a sandwich, with Heaven the filling and a watery layer on top of it.
“So God said: ‘Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.’
“And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
“And God said, ‘Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.’ And it was so. God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.”

Also, they thought the bottom layer consisted only of their homeland and neighbouring territories: I don’t know what proportion of the world that is, but it surely isn’t a large one. So a god being omnipresent wasn’t such a big deal, nor was it very surprising that God should choose the Jews to be His chosen people when the only other contenders were the rabble which was forever giving them grief.
Considering what they had in mind, I think it an extraordinary idea that they had stumbled upon descriptions of God which actually coincide with a real state of affairs.

Defiant Heretic

It must have been divine inspiration.

Stephen T-B

Yeah...
Pity the divine inspiration wasn't a bit more accurate about some other things, like the real state of affairs regarding the Earth (spherical, not flat) and its relationships with the sun and the moon, and how it's bacteria kills you when plague breaks out, not the wrath of god.
Turns out Divine Inspiration was pretty useless when it came to anything practical.

Ojuice5001

Abstract. She's a goddess of the past.

Darth Dane

Yeah...
Pity the divine inspiration wasn't a bit more accurate about some other things, like the real state of affairs regarding the Earth (spherical, not flat) and its relationships with the sun and the moon, and how it's bacteria kills you when plague breaks out, not the wrath of god.
Turns out Divine Inspiration was pretty useless when it came to anything practical.

What if God could not inspire the humans who wrote teh bible, because they were not ready for the whole truth at that point in time? But as time went on, more "inspirations" occurred, by chance, some say..., and we discovered the planet spinning around the sun, and not the other way around, and so God keeps on inspiring humans until they are ready to know the whole truth.

So inspiration is practical, but if teh inspiration isn't needed or pratical yet, why should it be revealed?

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes" (Psalm 82:6-7).

Old testament

"Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?". John

New testament.

If we are Gods, is that the whole truth that we are striving to realise?

With this, I believe we might also view a touch of sarcasm in Jesus' words. In a sense He said, "Why can't I be God just because I'm a man. Even you're own Scriptures declare men to be gods?" Jesus was not minimizing His identity to be something less than God, but seems to be mocking the Jews with their own Scriptures. The Jews continually came at Jesus with the Scriptures trying to destroy His claims, so Jesus used their own methods on them.

Taken from this site http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/yegods.htm



Inspiration is an interesting word; in spirit = inspiration, the holy spirit?

When we get enthusiastic about something?

Enthusiasm = in Theos(God)





DD - Love Spliff

Peter Squaremeter

I got my God on a bottle, and his name is Tanqueray!

Darth Dane

So no comments on my post?





DD - Love Spliff

Stephen T-B

Hello Spliff - I think the argument that god withheld vital information from the OT Jews because they weren’t ready to handle it to be a very weak one.
This is how I see it: the Jews claimed that material in the OT was the revelation of their God via his divine inspiration, but if that’s the case then he told them a pack of lies about absolutely everything concerning the natural world. He lied about the earth being flat; he lied about water being on top of the “firmament” (Heaven); he lied about the causation of light and dark, failing to point out that the sun gives us the daylight which he claimed to have created BEFORE he put the sun in the firmament - and so on and so forth. The fibs are OUTRAGEOUS - and absolutely pointless because instead of provoking curiosity and encouraging the ancient Jews to think and find out the truth, they were incorporated into their religious dogma and therefore not to be challenged; and the Christians adopted the same attitude, with the result that religious correctness kept Western Europe in a state of ignorance for centuries - and still would if the madder sort of Christians had their way.
If the ancient Jews hadn’t the wherewithal to handle the truth, a sensible god would have given them a few useful hints; instead of misleading them with tall stories, why didn’t he tell them how to make glass, so they could make lenses and begin to see the reality above their heads (and beneath their finger nails)?

If you argue that God is the source of our intelligence and that he intended us to find out the truth of what’s going on in discreet stages, so that our discoveries wouldn’t ran ahead of our ability to comprehend them, then that still doesn’t explain all those initial lies; nor does it explain why scientific advances should now be accelerating at such an explosive rate that only about .0009 per cent of the world’s population has anything more than a very vague idea of where they are taking us. (These advances, by-the-way, are impinging on quite a considerable number of people who aren’t much more advanced than the ancient Jews.)

The heart of your belief, I suspect, is the one that God is in us all; indeed, your choice of Biblical excerpts suggests you think we are gods.
Well, in terms of our power to kill or let live, we are quite godlike. But that comes from our phenomenal brain power, and we developed that, it seems, as a survival mechanism in a particularly brain-friendly environment.
But any day things could change, and having big brains might not be nearly as useful as being very small and naturally resistant to radiation - like cockroaches and scorpions. We may well think we are gods today, but at some point in the future, the human species might be a small remnant of deformed individuals eking out a pathetic existence in disused subways - and worshipping the giant scorpions which tramp through the ruins of once-great cities above their heads.

Darth Dane

Hello Spliff - I think the argument that god withheld vital information from the OT Jews because they weren’t ready to handle it to be a very weak one.

But valid.

... The fibs are OUTRAGEOUS - and absolutely pointless because instead of provoking curiosity and encouraging the ancient Jews to think and find out the truth, they were incorporated into their religious dogma and therefore not to be challenged; and the Christians adopted the same attitude, with the result that religious correctness kept Western Europe in a state of ignorance for centuries - and still would if the madder sort of Christians had their way.

Maybe God knew that teh best way to get some revolution going was to tell a lie. A lie made out to be the truth. The lie made humans curious, to find out if God was telling them the truth. Luckily there were those who defied Law and observed and reasoned anyways, like Copernicus, Nostradamus and many others. If we didn't want to verify God's words, how could there be any progress? So for the sake of humanity God told a lie. God sees all ends at any given point, and so can change the end, by changing the past. God is outside time eh?


If the ancient Jews hadn’t the wherewithal to handle the truth, a sensible god would have given them a few useful hints; instead of misleading them with tall stories, why didn’t he tell them how to make glass, so they could make lenses and begin to see the reality above their heads (and beneath their finger nails)?

Maybe progress would have occured slowlier this way.

If you argue that God is the source of our intelligence and that he intended us to find out the truth of what’s going on in discreet stages, so that our discoveries wouldn’t ran ahead of our ability to comprehend them, then that still doesn’t explain all those initial lies; nor does it explain why scientific advances should now be accelerating at such an explosive rate that only about .0009 per cent of the world’s population has anything more than a very vague idea of where they are taking us. (These advances, by-the-way, are impinging on quite a considerable number of people who aren’t much more advanced than the ancient Jews.)

Yes, scientific advances are now not in tune with nature, the harmony is lost, we invent and invent, but pay no heed to the aftermath of these technologies, like pollution and others.

The heart of your belief, I suspect, is the one that God is in us all; indeed, your choice of Biblical excerpts suggests you think we are gods.

The bible says we are God's, not I. I don't believe, I don't Know.

But any day things could change, and having big brains might not be nearly as useful as being very small and naturally resistant to radiation - like cockroaches and scorpions. We may well think we are gods today, but at some point in the future, the human species might be a small remnant of deformed individuals eking out a pathetic existence in disused subways - and worshipping the giant scorpions which tramp through the ruins of once-great cities above their heads.

So when it comes to radiation for example, a cockcroach is more God-like than we are? As they can withstand, they have a power, to radiation.

Birds are more God-like when it comes to flying on your own. True, humans have bent the rules so we can experience flying also.



I wonder where the God-like qualitites is in Earth or matter?

No earth no humans, so it is the base of our Lives.




DD - Love Spliff

Stephen T-B

Well, you've an interesting way of looking at things.
I don't think it is very rational. But it is interesting.

I believe you are a romantic at heart, and a poet.

I am just a boring, down-to-earth, prosaic atheist. I like coherent explanations; consistency and things I know will bear my weight.
I was deluged as a child by delusions and people for whom wishful thinking was how they coped with reality, and I reacted to it by seeking to rid my life of the lies they'd fed me.
I do fantasise, but I know the difference between fantasy and reality.

I wonder if you do. I wonder if you even want to?