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05-26-2003, 04:20 AM | #1 |
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A test for free will !
Did we have a choice to be created on this earth, yes or no? I think this question should be at the heart of any free will argument? If we did not have a choice how can anyone say that we now have a free will?
If we did have a choice why does nobody have any recollection of this decision and can we be held to this choice? |
05-26-2003, 04:43 AM | #2 | |
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Re: A test for free will !
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But why should that define free will? Then what will we call the fact that we can try to make decisions based on the choices presented to our minds? |
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05-26-2003, 05:00 AM | #3 | |
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Re: Re: A test for free will !
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I don’t think I would say it defines free-will, but I think that if we do have free will like many theist claim then should the exercising of that freedom not have started with the choice to participate in this cosmic experiment in the first place! My reasoning might be wrong, but if I was going to judge someone based on a set of decisions I would want to know if the participant was willing to participate first! That is why I ask if it should not be central to the argument. |
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05-26-2003, 05:23 AM | #4 |
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how could you be asked if you wish to exist if you dont yet exist??
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05-26-2003, 07:36 AM | #5 | |
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Quote:
--W@L |
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05-26-2003, 07:42 AM | #6 | |
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Re: Re: Re: A test for free will !
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Whether you had a choice in coming into this world is irrelevant; you are here. The breadth of the choices you make while here demonstrate the presence or absence of free will. |
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05-26-2003, 07:55 AM | #7 | |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: A test for free will !
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If I *had* a choice, why would I put my soul at such risk? Unless you're claiming souls aren't permanent and eternal, in which case Yahweh created my soul for the express purpose of putting it at risk of Hellfire. In which case I question His sanity. And I question the amount of free will He truly gives me. --W@L |
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05-26-2003, 08:09 AM | #8 |
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ahhhhh
W@L: when seen from that perspective, I stand corrected. (I also have no interest in performing apologetics as I do not believe in any supernatural ... well, anything.)
Would I be wrong in saying we can postulate a few things from here? Such as: 1. there is no free will 2. there is free will, but god is a complete bastard or is incompetent 3. the soul does not exist 4. by extension, I guess we can also shed some doubt as to the veracity of the xian mythos (not that it was particularly strong in any case). |
05-26-2003, 09:54 AM | #9 | |
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Re: Re: A test for free will !
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05-26-2003, 04:02 PM | #10 | |
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Re: Re: Re: A test for free will !
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What then is "free will"? The ability to make decisions from the choices we're NOT aware of? How is that a helpful definition? Merriam-Webster Main Entry: free will Function: noun 1 : voluntary choice or decision <I do this of my own free will> 2 : freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention Main Entry: 2will Pronunciation: 'wil Date: before 12th century 1 : DESIRE, WISH: as a : DISPOSITION, INCLINATION <where there's a will there's a way> b : APPETITE, PASSION c : CHOICE, DETERMINATION 2 a : something desired; especially : a choice or determination of one having authority or power b (1) archaic : REQUEST, COMMAND (2) [from the phrase our will is which introduces it] : the part of a summons expressing a royal command 3 : the act, process, or experience of willing : VOLITION 4 a : mental powers manifested as wishing, choosing, desiring, or intending b : a disposition to act according to principles or ends c : the collective desire of a group <the will of the people> 5 : the power of control over one's own actions or emotions <a man of iron will> 6 : {legal - snip} - at will : as one wishes : as or when it pleases or suits oneself LOOKS TO ME like we're both right. |
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