Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ohwilleke · 07-23-2002, 10:52 AM

As I was reading the article linked below, it just floored me, despite knowing it was true, that Tony Blair, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and leader of the Labor Party made the final decision on who the Archbishop of Canterbury, i.e. the Anglican Pope, would be. This would be roughly equivalent to having George W. Bush pick who the next head Methodist Bishop will be.

<a href="http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020723/1/30stn.html" target="_blank">http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020723/1/30stn.html</a>

mac_philo · 07-23-2002, 11:03 AM

I think the analogy is a bit off. Dubya appointing a religious leader gives him ideological control over a political force.

Religion is an impotent political force in Britain, unless you include 'The Troubles,' which is only superficially a religious issue.

Of course, that's just the facts as they are at this moment in history. In terms of the structure of government, yeah, it is just as creepy as Dubya anointing a religious leader.

Kevin Dorner · 07-23-2002, 12:41 PM

Perhaps church and state won't be joined in Britain for much longer. The new appointee Archbishop of Canterbury: <a href="http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020723/1/30stn.html" target="_blank">"Among other controversial stances, he has backed a gradual separation of church and state in England, a position which finds no favour with traditionalists."</a>

He also supports homosexual rights and female priests.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

abe smith · 07-24-2002, 05:44 AM

Yes yes K. Dorner just aloft ^^^^: your foregoing post just beat me to the draw; cheers for the Welshman ! But the stats about Anglicanism in OldAnglia are such that in a decade or so the only remaining Anglicans besides the ^ mandatorily-so Monarch (while there may remain one of THOSE) will all be clerics. It is peculiar, tho, that in spite of their failing numbers (except for Congressmen & other politicians) the Episscopalians do tend to have some um interesting & effective (I'll put them in """.) "thinkers" among them.--- including apparently a number of Out-atheists... Give 'em credit. Abe

seanie · 07-24-2002, 05:48 AM

It's the established church of England not the UK.

ohwilleke · 07-24-2002, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by seanie:
<strong>It's the established church of England not the UK.</strong>

I stand corrected.

mac_philo · 07-24-2002, 04:49 PM

Just to multiply labels, he's the first non-Englishman to get the job since the Anglicans split with Rome.

Zippy · 07-24-2002, 06:00 PM

It's not such a big deal for us Britishers. It's more a quaint tradition for us than anything else. England is such an atheistic nation that these things don't make much difference.

I'd like to see Blair's role reduced to a symbolic one, but I think he should still have a role. It's part of our history, really. I don't mind it.

Paul

Darkside_Spirit · 07-25-2002, 03:59 AM

As long as the CofE remains established, receiving support from the state, seats in the legislature, and blasphemy laws to protect its doctrines, it is appropriate for an elected government politician to influence the selection of CofE officials.

Dr Williams, apparently, favours disestablishment. When the CofE is removed from government support and involvement, then it will be allowed to choose its own leader.

07-23-2002, 10:52 AM	#1
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	Reminder that U.K. has an established church. As I was reading the article linked below, it just floored me, despite knowing it was true, that Tony Blair, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and leader of the Labor Party made the final decision on who the Archbishop of Canterbury, i.e. the Anglican Pope, would be. This would be roughly equivalent to having George W. Bush pick who the next head Methodist Bishop will be. <a href="http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020723/1/30stn.html" target="_blank">http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020723/1/30stn.html</a>

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07-23-2002, 11:03 AM	#2
mac_philo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tax-Exempt Donor, SoP Loyalist Posts: 2,191	I think the analogy is a bit off. Dubya appointing a religious leader gives him ideological control over a political force. Religion is an impotent political force in Britain, unless you include 'The Troubles,' which is only superficially a religious issue. Of course, that's just the facts as they are at this moment in history. In terms of the structure of government, yeah, it is just as creepy as Dubya anointing a religious leader.

07-23-2002, 12:41 PM	#3
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	Perhaps church and state won't be joined in Britain for much longer. The new appointee Archbishop of Canterbury: <a href="http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020723/1/30stn.html" target="_blank">"Among other controversial stances, he has backed a gradual separation of church and state in England, a position which finds no favour with traditionalists."</a> He also supports homosexual rights and female priests. [ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

07-24-2002, 05:44 AM	#4
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Yes yes K. Dorner just aloft ^^^^: your foregoing post just beat me to the draw; cheers for the Welshman ! But the stats about Anglicanism in OldAnglia are such that in a decade or so the only remaining Anglicans besides the ^ mandatorily-so Monarch (while there may remain one of THOSE) will all be clerics. It is peculiar, tho, that in spite of their failing numbers (except for Congressmen & other politicians) the Episscopalians do tend to have some um interesting & effective (I'll put them in """.) "thinkers" among them.--- including apparently a number of Out-atheists... Give 'em credit. Abe

07-24-2002, 05:48 AM	#5
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	It's the established church of England not the UK.

07-24-2002, 04:49 PM	#7
mac_philo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tax-Exempt Donor, SoP Loyalist Posts: 2,191	Just to multiply labels, he's the first non-Englishman to get the job since the Anglicans split with Rome.

07-24-2002, 06:00 PM	#8
Zippy Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: England Posts: 115	It's not such a big deal for us Britishers. It's more a quaint tradition for us than anything else. England is such an atheistic nation that these things don't make much difference. I'd like to see Blair's role reduced to a symbolic one, but I think he should still have a role. It's part of our history, really. I don't mind it. Paul

07-25-2002, 03:59 AM	#9
Darkside_Spirit Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 33	As long as the CofE remains established, receiving support from the state, seats in the legislature, and blasphemy laws to protect its doctrines, it is appropriate for an elected government politician to influence the selection of CofE officials. Dr Williams, apparently, favours disestablishment. When the CofE is removed from government support and involvement, then it will be allowed to choose its own leader.

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