Shadowy Man

Then killing him in the womb would be a bad thing since he hadn't yet chosen to do any evil acts.

yguy

From a human perspective, every human - including, by extension, preborn children - has the right to life in the sense that we are not empowered to take it away. From a divine perspective, none of us has the right to life, much less free will. It's a gift. So I don't see what would be unjust about God denying that gift to anyone.

winstonjen

Anyone or anything, no matter how 'divine', who lives by "do as I say, not as I do" does not deserve respect or worship. It would be unjust for god as god does not have our permission to treat us as pawns.

yguy

Where do you get the idea He needs our permission for anything?

winstonjen

If he doesn't have the consent of the governed, he is nothing more than a tyrant, and is not worth worshipping.

yguy

You haven't answered the question.

In any case, He doesn't govern without consent. That's why things like the Holocaust happen.

winstonjen

I thought I did.

What do you mean? Surely an omnipotent and omniscient being would know whether the Holocaust victims wanted to be saved, and then save them. As he didn't, it's clear that he values the free will of the murderers more than the free will of the victims.

yguy

I think otherwise.

He did. Many Jews saw the writing on the wall and got the hell out of there. Many more cringed in terror before the Nazis, effectively making them their Gods. You can't have it both ways.

winstonjen

Explain.



You've just contradicted yourself here -

yguy

You haven't told me why He needs permission to do anything.

How? Those Jews who bowed and scraped before the Nazis rejected God's governance in so doing.