irichc

If everything that needs a cause needs also an effect, and causes and effects, leaving the time factor out, are equivalent
If something being its own tendency can't move
Assuming that Universe moves, then
The Universe is neither its own ending nor its own cause.

(...)

Daniel.

Philosophy forum (spanish):

http://boards1.melodysoft.com/app?ID=isegoria

Bill Snedden

BZZZZT!

But thank you for playing!

Regards,

Bill Snedden

Amos

The intelligent design is equal to order in the universe and this is the prime mover. It was created when God first placed heaven opposite to earth, or design opposite to chaos.

irichc

Universe expands, and expands to something which is not the Universe itself (otherwise it won't expand: it will always be in the same state).

Daniel.

Bill Snedden

Ah....no.

I suggest reading up on cosmology. In an infinite universe model, the total volume of the universe is unchanging. Expansion is the increase in distance between galaxies.

The current finite universe model postulates a universe without edge. Therefore, it expands into itself.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

irichc

I'm talking about an Universe with a constant volume, without edge and expanding to NOTHINGNESS. But, if nothingness was its ending, then it must be its cause too (according to the first premise). But "a nihilo nihil fit", so we must presuppose God.

Daniel.

Philosophy forum:

http://boards1.melodysoft.com/app?ID=isegoria

Bill Snedden

Then you're talking about something that has no relationship to reality as we know it...

That should be "ex nihilo..." and no, just because "nothing" is insufficient as a cause, we needn't presuppose "god". You dismiss too easily the possibility of a natural cause.

Of course, it's all moot as your premise of a "moving universe" is flawed.

Regards,

Bill Snedden

irichc

If there was an infinity of "natural causes", Universe would never started. And obviously i'm not talking of any visible reality, but of a suprasensible one.

Daniel.

PS: "A nihilo nihil fit" is correct too.

Philosophy forum:

http://boards1.melodysoft.com/app?ID=isegoria

irichc

If there was an infinity of "natural causes", Universe would had never started. And obviously i'm not talking of any visible reality, but of a suprasensible one.

Daniel.

PS: "A nihilo nihil fit" is correct too.

Philosophy forum:

http://boards1.melodysoft.com/app?ID=isegoria

Biff the unclean

If everything that needs a cause needs also an effect, and causes and effects, leaving the time factor out, are equivalent
If something being its own tendency can't move then lightening cannot be it's own cause…therefore there must be a Thor.

No matter how much one tries to disguise this old saw with rhetoric it always comes out the same. "I don't know why something happened so it must be a god." Yet every time that we find the answer to a question there are no gods involved. Thor doesn't cause lightening; Poseidon isn't the cause of earthquakes. Every time, without exception "suprasensible reality" turns out to only be just reality. Divine machinations have always turned out to be something pedestrian like loose electrons or plate tectonics.
We have never found a single god. We have never found a single supernatural anything.

I've read that a sure sign that someone is crazy is that they repeatedly do the same actions but always expect a different result. To once again ascribe an unknown cause to the activities of some god is to expect a result different from any in the entire history of mankind.