Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 04-19-2002, 04:49 AM

So please eliminate the idea from your thinking that we are somehow preoccupied or obsessed with religion because somewhere, deep down inside we “know” there is a God or any other malarkey you may have been taught about the atheist, agnostic, skeptic and free thinkers of the world. Nothing could be farther from the truth. We are a passionate bunch, but the difference between this forum and other forums is the freedom you will experience in discussing your views. You will not be banned here for posting dissenting opinions, as so many of have in theist forums. You will also find that although we vehemently disagree with your belief in a deity, we will be the 1st to defend your right to believe and worship as you wish.

I can only echo what Brigid said, and add that if you look at our forums, you'll find the misc forums as active as any, and most of the discussions revolving around other things. We have these forums specifically for discussing Christ-inanity and other fairy sky god delusions. So that is why these forums seem "obsessed" or "reveling." That is their purpose.

Further, here at infidels we let our hair down and bitch and grouse and laugh. Out there in the real world many of us remain firmly closeted, thanks to the widespread discrimination against non-Christians in the United States. So you are seeing people who are reveling, but they are reveling in their freedom, not in being atheists.

Michael

free12thinker · 04-19-2002, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by God Head:
Hello, i am a first time poster who came across this message board while researching for a college project. I have become intigued by this place, the people and the sentiments expressed. I would be interested in knowing what it is about your lack-of-belief or aversion to religion that makes you discuss it so much and so often. Now, im not judging, i am a practising Roman Catholic but i am in no way a fundamentalist. I dont want to convert anyone nor do i want to lambast anyone who doesnt believe. I am first and foremost a believer in God, but i dont revel in it. It is a personal thing, which i do not feel the need to broad cast to the world.

Why do you so actively participate in talking about something you don't believe in, why not talk about not believing in Santa either?

I can sum it up in one sentence. We are non-theists (most of us) and therefore we are too analytical for our own good. (There's my one sentence, but I will not stop here because, well, this place is addicting, and it works our brains for us when we would otherwise be sitting at a boring job.)

First and foremost we do not talk about Santa because no one believes in Santa, so what's there to debate? And frankly, we talk about God because we are astounding by the amount of people who believe in such a mysterious deity. Take our analytical minds and try and explain to us why people believe in someone for whom they've never seen. Someone for whom there are so many differing accounts. But mostly, someone whose image and legend have caused, and do cause, so much heartache.

And we really feel bad for these people who believe. To some of us it means that they are not their own person. To some of us it means that they require strength from somewhere and therefore follow a God. That dissapoints us sometimes, and sometimes it simply angers us. Religion, and God's name, are used to take away rights from people, and to explain why certain things are the way they are, which, in cases, can take away responsibility.

I better stop before I turn it on all the way.
Thanks for the post, and thanks for not trying to convert anyone.

free12thinker · 04-19-2002, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by free12thinker:


I can sum it up in one sentence. We are non-theists (most of us) and therefore we are naturally analytical. (There's my one sentence, but I will not stop here because, well, this place is addicting, and it works our brains for us when we would otherwise be sitting at a boring job.)

First and foremost we do not talk about Santa because no one believes in Santa, so what's there to debate? And we do like to debate? And to listen. And to learn. We don't have anyone else to listen and learn with since Atheists are a minority.

And frankly, we talk about God because we are astounding by the amount of people who believe in such a mysterious deity. Take our analytical minds and try and explain to us why people believe in someone for whom they've never seen. Someone for whom there are so many differing accounts. But mostly, someone whose image and legend have caused, and do cause, so much heartache.

And we really feel bad for these people who believe. To some of us it means that they are not their own person. To some of us it means that they require strength from somewhere and therefore follow a God. That dissapoints us sometimes, and sometimes it simply angers us. Religion, and God's name, are used to take away rights from people, and to explain why certain things are the way they are, which, in cases, can take away responsibility.

I better stop before I turn it on all the way.
Thanks for the post, and thanks for not trying to convert anyone.

snatchbalance · 04-19-2002, 05:12 AM

Godhead

More than anything else, atheism is fun.

It allows one to to survey and evaluate the possibilties in life without the wieght many preconceived notions. I can decide for myself what is "right", and what is "wrong".(Of course, societal pressures may dictate some of my actions.

I'm free to examine the latest findings in science(both physical and social) without checking to make sure that it fits some sort of dogma.

Basically, to me, religion, the notion of god in general, is something of a dead end; it cuts one off from a world of possibilities. For example, how did life arise? Well, god put it here. End of story. How fucking stupid is that? There's a much bigger, more facinating, much truer, picture to be found.

To me, religion is, for the most part, just some sort wierd social conditioning phenomenon that humans have dragged along with them from the paleolithic. Like any other other phenomenon, it can be interesting,and maybe worth talking about.

The biggest problem with religion, IMHO, is that many of its practitioners actually think that the delusions produced by thier practices are real. They then proceed to act on said delusions. This causes problems for all of us. This interfers with my fun at times, which sucks.

So I hope I cleared that up for you.

Snatchbalance

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: snatchbalance ]

The Other Michael · 04-19-2002, 05:32 AM

Automaton said:

Quote:

Gee, you must have a pretty empty life if you don't find your beliefs and philosophy worth revelling in.

I was wondering more on the line of how could someone who knew that they were bound for an eternal afterlife of bliss not be reveling every second over their good fortune.

"Oh yes, I'm saved, ho hum"

cheers,
Michael

Hans · 04-19-2002, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by God Head:
Why do you so actively participate in talking about something you don't believe in, why not talk about not believing in Santa either?

Unlike your approach to your religion our culture is litered with those who would not only have us believe but would also have us live by their ways.

<a href="http://www.cc.org/" target="_blank">http://www.cc.org/</a>
<a href="http://cbn.org/" target="_blank">http://cbn.org/</a>
<a href="http://www.promisekeepers.org/" target="_blank">http://www.promisekeepers.org/</a>

Don't sell me your fairytales as fact and I won't find the need to correct you!!!! We don't seem to have this problem with Santa.

Mageth · 04-19-2002, 09:00 AM

Isn't this the third or fourth time in the last couple of months a theist has opened a similar topic to this?

I would be interested in knowing what it is about your lack-of-belief or aversion to religion that makes you discuss it so much and so often.

My answer on another thread: because you theists keep asking us questions!

I'll ask you: why as a theist are you interested in discussing with us non-believers why we discuss theism? What is it about our lack of belief that makes you wish to discuss our lack of belief with us?

Indifference · 04-19-2002, 09:04 AM

God Head quote: "I am first and foremost a believer in God, but i dont revel in it. It is a personal thing, which i do not feel the need to broad cast to the world."

Ah, but you do broadcast it. At least locally. Do you go to church?

And actually, i think in order to be saved, you not only have to believe, but you must announce it. I know this because i was listening to a religious program. The guy was talking about closet christians who believe but don't tell anyone. He said they wouldn't be saved. He quoted a bunch of passages and all that jazz.

And as for why WE revel. Well, this is kinda like church for us. We gather and talk about beliefs. The difference is that instead of listening to someone tell us what they "know" to be true... we ask each other for answers and occationally offer some.

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Indifference ]

TollHouse · 04-19-2002, 09:11 AM

God Head:

Quote:

"I am first and foremost a believer in God, but i dont revel in it. It is a personal thing, which i do not feel the need to broad cast to the world."

Think about what you just wrote, GH. I don't broadcast my atheism to the world. True, I broadcast my beliefs here, but then again you've just done the same now, haven't you?

Christians! They just can't stop contradicting themselves!

(joking)

Blue_Metal · 04-19-2002, 09:32 AM

Um... You do know what a god head is, don't you...

It's not something nice...

Blue

04-19-2002, 05:12 AM	#14
snatchbalance Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: CT Posts: 333	Godhead More than anything else, atheism is fun. It allows one to to survey and evaluate the possibilties in life without the wieght many preconceived notions. I can decide for myself what is "right", and what is "wrong".(Of course, societal pressures may dictate some of my actions. I'm free to examine the latest findings in science(both physical and social) without checking to make sure that it fits some sort of dogma. Basically, to me, religion, the notion of god in general, is something of a dead end; it cuts one off from a world of possibilities. For example, how did life arise? Well, god put it here. End of story. How fucking stupid is that? There's a much bigger, more facinating, much truer, picture to be found. To me, religion is, for the most part, just some sort wierd social conditioning phenomenon that humans have dragged along with them from the paleolithic. Like any other other phenomenon, it can be interesting,and maybe worth talking about. The biggest problem with religion, IMHO, is that many of its practitioners actually think that the delusions produced by thier practices are real. They then proceed to act on said delusions. This causes problems for all of us. This interfers with my fun at times, which sucks. So I hope I cleared that up for you. Snatchbalance [ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: snatchbalance ]</p>

04-19-2002, 09:04 AM	#18
Indifference Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 165	God Head quote: "I am first and foremost a believer in God, but i dont revel in it. It is a personal thing, which i do not feel the need to broad cast to the world." Ah, but you do broadcast it. At least locally. Do you go to church? And actually, i think in order to be saved, you not only have to believe, but you must announce it. I know this because i was listening to a religious program. The guy was talking about closet christians who believe but don't tell anyone. He said they wouldn't be saved. He quoted a bunch of passages and all that jazz. And as for why WE revel. Well, this is kinda like church for us. We gather and talk about beliefs. The difference is that instead of listening to someone tell us what they "know" to be true... we ask each other for answers and occationally offer some. [ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Indifference ]</p>

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04-19-2002, 04:49 AM	#11
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	So please eliminate the idea from your thinking that we are somehow preoccupied or obsessed with religion because somewhere, deep down inside we “know” there is a God or any other malarkey you may have been taught about the atheist, agnostic, skeptic and free thinkers of the world. Nothing could be farther from the truth. We are a passionate bunch, but the difference between this forum and other forums is the freedom you will experience in discussing your views. You will not be banned here for posting dissenting opinions, as so many of have in theist forums. You will also find that although we vehemently disagree with your belief in a deity, we will be the 1st to defend your right to believe and worship as you wish. I can only echo what Brigid said, and add that if you look at our forums, you'll find the misc forums as active as any, and most of the discussions revolving around other things. We have these forums specifically for discussing Christ-inanity and other fairy sky god delusions. So that is why these forums seem "obsessed" or "reveling." That is their purpose. Further, here at infidels we let our hair down and bitch and grouse and laugh. Out there in the real world many of us remain firmly closeted, thanks to the widespread discrimination against non-Christians in the United States. So you are seeing people who are reveling, but they are reveling in their freedom, not in being atheists. Michael

04-19-2002, 09:00 AM	#17
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Isn't this the third or fourth time in the last couple of months a theist has opened a similar topic to this? I would be interested in knowing what it is about your lack-of-belief or aversion to religion that makes you discuss it so much and so often. My answer on another thread: because you theists keep asking us questions! I'll ask you: why as a theist are you interested in discussing with us non-believers why we discuss theism? What is it about our lack of belief that makes you wish to discuss our lack of belief with us?

04-19-2002, 09:32 AM	#20
Blue_Metal Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NA Posts: 130	Um... You do know what a god head is, don't you... It's not something nice... Blue

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