Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ishalon · 07-26-2002, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCdgw:
[QB]The fourth (and I think the best) theory says the races came from the Tower of Babel. Genesis 10:20 says, "These are the sons of Ham, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, in their nations." Perhaps all families, countries, nations, and tongues were created or developed from this event. Maybe the colors were divinely created at that time, or maybe they are just a natural product of a small group of people speaking their own language and marrying back to their own parent stock. Racial traits become more pronounced in a small inbreeding group. The Bible isn't clear on this subject. These four theories are the only ones that I know. I efer the Tower of Babel explanation. I know the Bible does say in Acts 17 that all nations are of one blood so there is no reason for anyone to be a racist. [QB]

sounds like evolution...

GeoTheo · 07-26-2002, 09:12 AM

Adam and Eve had a kid named Seth after Abel got killed that was not a Pagan and had a slew of Godly kids. Noah and kin were descended from Seth. I'm not saying I hold to a literal interp. of Genesis just that even if you do there is no support that black skin is the mark of Cain or even that Cain passed it on.

Dr Rick · 07-26-2002, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GeoTheo:
...there is no support that black skin is the mark of Cain or even that Cain passed it on.

...or that Cain even existed.

Rick

GeoTheo · 07-26-2002, 09:33 AM

Not saying there is. Just saying that the Bible does not say that. Trace the geneologies. All Cains descendants would have perished in the flood. Wheather you believe the Bible or not it says what it says.

mibby529 · 07-26-2002, 03:04 PM

@rbochernmd:
I believe you're referring to the curse of Ham. Now, how will they explain Indians, aborigines, Polynesians...Creationists invented a theory about Indians being from Siberia, but it contradicts archaeological, genetic, physical-anthropological, anthropological, geological...Those are just the ones I know of.

Mibby, who would be a creationist, if he weren't a little dark on the issue.

Albion · 07-26-2002, 03:43 PM

Oh, so this is why the young earthers always seem to fall back on "but we don't know what races Noah's daughers in law were, do we?", I suppose. Not that they ever explain why a daugher in law who was descended from Cain would have been allowed on the Ark in the first place. I mean, if God had wanted to really clean house, he should have made sure of the righteousness of all the inhabitants. And yet - just look what happened to that very same family a little later. Seems like a waste of all that ethnic cleansing, doesn't it?

mibby529 · 07-31-2002, 02:52 PM

Yahweh was never the most efficient deity.

%Let there be light!

#Enter user id.

%God

#Enter password.

%Omniscient

#Password incorrect. Try again.

%Omnipotent

#Password incorrect. Try again.

%Technocrat

#And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Sunday, March 1.

%Let there be light!

#Unrecognizable command. Try again.

%Create light

#Done

%Run heaven and earth

#And God created Day and Night. And God saw there were 0 errors.

#And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Sunday, March 1.

#Approx. funds remaining: $92.50.

#And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Monday, March 2.

%Let there be firmament in the midst of water and light

#Unrecognizable command. Try again.

%Create firmament

#Done.

%Run firmament

#And God divided the waters. And God saw there were 0 errors.

#And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Monday, March 2.

#Approx. funds remaining: $84.60.

#And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Tuesday, March 3.

%Let the waters under heaven be gathered together unto one place and let

the dry land appear and

#Too many characters in specification string. Try again.

%Create dry_land

#Done.

%Run firmament

#And God divided the waters. And God saw there were 0 errors.

#And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Tuesday, March 3.

#Approx. funds remaining: $65.00.

#And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Wednesday, March 4.

%Create lights in the firmament to divide the day from the night

#Unspecified type. Try again.

%Create sun_moon_stars

#Done

%Run sun_moon_stars

#And God created the heavens. And God saw there were 0 errors.

#And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Wednesday, March 4.

#Approx. funds remaining: $54.00.

#And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Thursday, March 5.

%Create fish

#Done

%Create fowl

#Done

%Run fish, fowl

#And God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that

creepeth wherewith the waters swarmed after its kind and every winged fowl

after its kind. And God saw there were 0 errors.

#And God logged off at 12:02:00 AM, Thursday, March 5.

#Approx. funds remaining: $45.00.

#And God logged on at 12:01:00 AM, Friday, March 6.

%Create cattle

#Done

%Create creepy_things

#Done

%Now let us make man in our image

#Unspecified type. Try again.

%Create man

#Done

%Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it and have

dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air and over

every living thing that creepeth upon the earth

#Too many command operands. Try again.

%Run multiplication

#Execution terminated. 6 errors.

%Insert breath

#Done

%Run multiplication

#Execution terminated. 5 errors.

%Move man to Garden of Eden

#File Garden of Eden does not exist.

%Create Garden.edn

#Done

%Move man to Garden.edn

#Done

%Run multiplication

#Execution terminated. 4 errors.

%Copy woman from man

#Done

%Run multiplication

#Execution terminated. 3 errors.

%Insert woman into man

#Illegal parameters. Try again.

%Insert man into woman

#Done

%Run multiplication

#Execution terminated. 2 errors.

%Create desire

#Done

%Run multiplication

#And God saw man and woman being fruitful and multiplying in Garden.edn

#Warning: No time limit on this run. 1 errors.

%Create freewill

#Done

%Run freewill

#And God saw man and woman being fruitful and multiplying in Garden.edn

#Warning: No time limit on this run. 1 errors.

%Undo desire

#Desire cannot be undone once freewill is created.

%Destroy freewill

#Freewill is an inaccessible file and cannot be destroyed.

#Enter replacement, cancel, or ask for help.

%Help

#Desire cannot be undone once freewill is created.

#Freewill is an inaccessible file and cannot be destroyed.

#Enter replacement, cancel, or ask for help.

%Create tree_of_knowledge

#And God saw man and woman being fruitful and multiplying in Garden.edn

#Warning: No time limit on this run. 1 errors.

%Create good, evil

#Done

%Activate evil

#And God saw he had created shame.

#Warning system error in sector E95. Man and woman not in Garden.edn.

#1 errors.

%Scan Garden.edn for man, woman

#Search failed.

%Delete shame

#Shame cannot be deleted once evil has been activated.

%Destroy freewill

#Freewill is an inaccessible file and cannot be destroyed.

#Enter replacement, cancel, or ask for help.

%Stop

#Unrecognizable command. Try again

%Break

%Break

%Break

#ATTENTION ALL USERS *** ATTENTION ALL USERS: COMPUTER GOING DOWN FOR REGULAR DAY OF MAINTENANCE AND REST IN FIVE MINUTES. PLEASE LOG OFF.

%Create new world

#You have exceeded your allocated file space. You must destroy old files

before new ones can be created.

%Destroy earth

#Destroy earth: Please confirm.

%Destroy earth confirmed

#COMPUTER DOWN *** COMPUTER DOWN. SERVICES WILL RESUME SUNDAY, MARCH 8 AT 6:00 AM. YOU MUST SIGN OFF NOW.

#And God logged off at 11:59:59 PM, Friday, March 6.

#Approx. funds remaining: $0.00.

tgamble · 07-31-2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mibby529:
@rbochernmd:
I believe you're referring to the curse of Ham. Now, how will they explain Indians, aborigines, Polynesians...Creationists invented a theory about Indians being from Siberia, but it contradicts archaeological, genetic, physical-anthropological, anthropological, geological...Those are just the ones I know of.

So does Creation "science". What's your point?

mibby529 · 08-03-2002, 03:02 PM

Well, I think facts aren't the "default" mode for creation scientists. But it's interesting in that it's one of the few cases of creation "science" taught in school. The actual theory goes back to a 16th century Jesuit missionary named Jose de Acosta, a couple hundred years before the Bering Strait was known of by Europeans, and is based largely on Genesis.

ps418 · 08-03-2002, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mibby529:
Well, I think facts aren't the "default" mode for creation scientists. But it's interesting in that it's one of the few cases of creation "science" taught in school. The actual theory goes back to a 16th century Jesuit missionary named Jose de Acosta, a couple hundred years before the Bering Strait was known of by Europeans, and is based largely on Genesis.

Where is the "creationism" in the hypothesis that some or all native americans are the descendents of people who migrated from Siberia across the Bering land bridge? I dont know if the hypothesis is true or not, but I dont see why its "creationism." Could you help me understand where you're coming from here?

Patrick

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07-26-2002, 09:12 AM	#22
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Adam and Eve had a kid named Seth after Abel got killed that was not a Pagan and had a slew of Godly kids. Noah and kin were descended from Seth. I'm not saying I hold to a literal interp. of Genesis just that even if you do there is no support that black skin is the mark of Cain or even that Cain passed it on.

07-26-2002, 09:33 AM	#24
GeoTheo Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Bemidji Posts: 1,197	Not saying there is. Just saying that the Bible does not say that. Trace the geneologies. All Cains descendants would have perished in the flood. Wheather you believe the Bible or not it says what it says.

07-26-2002, 03:04 PM	#25
mibby529 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cali Posts: 170	@rbochernmd: I believe you're referring to the curse of Ham. Now, how will they explain Indians, aborigines, Polynesians...Creationists invented a theory about Indians being from Siberia, but it contradicts archaeological, genetic, physical-anthropological, anthropological, geological...Those are just the ones I know of. Mibby, who would be a creationist, if he weren't a little dark on the issue.

07-26-2002, 03:43 PM	#26
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Oh, so this is why the young earthers always seem to fall back on "but we don't know what races Noah's daughers in law were, do we?", I suppose. Not that they ever explain why a daugher in law who was descended from Cain would have been allowed on the Ark in the first place. I mean, if God had wanted to really clean house, he should have made sure of the righteousness of all the inhabitants. And yet - just look what happened to that very same family a little later. Seems like a waste of all that ethnic cleansing, doesn't it?

08-03-2002, 03:02 PM	#29
mibby529 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cali Posts: 170	Well, I think facts aren't the "default" mode for creation scientists. But it's interesting in that it's one of the few cases of creation "science" taught in school. The actual theory goes back to a 16th century Jesuit missionary named Jose de Acosta, a couple hundred years before the Bering Strait was known of by Europeans, and is based largely on Genesis.

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