Proxima Centauri

GEMMA, are you a Roman Catholic or a troll looking for entertainment?


<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Bree

Gemma (and others) -

If you want to hash out your differences, feel free to do so in another thread.

Thanks.

Dr Rick

The evidence goes further than that; chemical or surgical castration of pedophiles decreases the risk of recidivism. It does not induce complete sexual dysfunction but rather takes some of the "energy" out of pedophilic desires and fantasies. Pedophiles often have very poor impulse control relative to normal men; castration doesn't change their paraphilia, but it makes the urges easier for them to control.

Rick

sullster

Amos.
You are so kind to Bernie the Pimp. You are a good catholic. You say that poor Bernie had to "learn the hard way" that sexual preference is not a learned behaviour. You also say Bernie made the best decisions in a "changing social environment".

Horse Pies! Are you trying to tell me that the Harvard educated Bernie Law actually thought that sexual urges were learned behaviour? That is incomprehensible for a learned man of his status. If Bernie actually thought that, then he deserves to be kicked out for being dangerously ignorant of human sexuality.


What is this "changing social environment" nonsense? The catholic clergy live in an isolated world of other-worldly ideology with an unchanging medieval perspective. If anyone, can avoid the temptations of the world, it is them. Yet, these priests were, by their own free will mind you, indulging their child-raping urges. To top it off, Bernie the Pimp, who could have booted these low-lives out of the medieval fantasy party, did not do it. This scandal is all their fault and is not the fault of an external social environment.


Finally, you do not have a clue about the spot that a victim of sexual abuse is put in. Even in families, it is hard for a kid to be believed and if he is, the shame of it causes the kid to be blamed.

Now, consider your mighty church. Its priests are god's representatives who can send you to hell. Can not even you, a fantatic catholic, see how utterly difficult it would be for a kid to say that god's agent on earth did a sexual act with him??? The combination of religious superstitions, priestly power and a kid's powerlessness means that a child-raping priest can run wild. Add Bernie and you get the whole scandal.

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: sullster ]</p>

Amos

Leave me out of it sullster because I had nothing to do with it. You may defrock him or castrate him or do what you want with him while I give you another slant to my argument-- if only just for the fun of writing it.

In my opinion children should have a moral sense of values that is deeply imprinted upon their soul as if written in stone (this just has to be true or athiests could not be moral agents). This sense of value would be incarnate upon them from their parents. This makes it an intrinsic evil and so in the absense of this I can see why such children would see no wrong with the act itself. And yes, this is also why children see little or nothing wrong with it if their own parents do such evil acts. That is, how could they if their own parents see no evil in it? (it is often their friends who tell them that something is wrong).

To think that priests are gods representatives who can send anyone to hell is protestant theology and therefore not true.

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Debbie T

When I was being sexually abused by my father I knew it was wrong. The terror I used to feel when I heard that door opening in the middle of the night or when Daddy would single me out to go on business trips with him was a nightmare.

Just because a child doesn't step forward doesn't mean the child thinks it is ok what is going on. Pedophiles know how to psychologically manipulate their victims or terrorize them into silence. And the guilt and shame a child has to bare you couldn't even begin to fathom let alone have compassion for, judging by your glib and insensitive remarks.

There were victims that stepped forward in the Catholic church and they along with their families, were further victimized by the church. If you want to stay in denial about what went on then you are just as much a part of the problem that doesn't help the real victims in this story. Your church and the leaders (that allowed this to go on as long as it did) are not the victims, the children are. Until you and other Catholics quit denying the problem and take care of those that are hurting this problem is not going to go away any time soon. Quit defending the monsters, and start defending those who have been hurt beyond your capabilities of understanding and compassion. Reading your attitude and Gemma's on this thread make me sick to my stomach.

Maybe you two should try reading the stories of children who have been sexually abused and also read how they are treated when they come forward. Your church has too many children that have gone to hell and back in the treatment they went through when they came forward by your church.

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Debbie T ]</p>

Amos

I honestly don't see how a Church can victimize me but I can see why some people do not have to courage to step forward and report rape.

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>

Debbie T

Absurd and calloused questions.

Editted to add:

No you can't see it because you lack empathy for the victims. The only thing that comes across in your posts to me is protecting the church. Your answer to me and your previous posts says it all.

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Debbie T ]</p>

mecca777

Amos, normally your posts seem to show you as somebody who takes a very esoteric view of your religion, and who enjoys wordplay for its own sake.

This one, however, reveals you as an obstinate prick.

Read this sentence carefully: children who are victims of sexual abuse very rarely have the courage to tell the relevant authorities, because the adult who is abusing them will constantly reinforce the idea that they are equally culpable, that they will be in more trouble, that they are at fault, that the abuser will kill them or their family...

The theme that you are proposing - that the child victims of paedophilia in the RC Church are in some way to blame, because they didn't have the moral sense of values to contact the police themselves - presents a pretty simplistic and unrealistic view of child psychology. It shows a willingness to bend over backwards to excuse priests from their moral obligations, while transferring those obligations to scared and vulnerable children.

Stephen Maturin

From Dahlia Lithwick, the goddess of internet legal reporting, here's more on Bernie, his outrageous misconduct and efforts to find a way of holding him criminally liable:

<a href="http://slate.msn.com/?id=2075831" target="_blank">But Why Isn't Bernard Law in Jail? (Part 2)</a>

Getting back to the questions in sullster's original post, we ain't seen nuthin' yet. These priest sexual abuse cases have generated tons of civil litigation and they'll generate a whole lot more. Say what you will about 'em, but nobody - absolutely nobody - is better at getting to the bottom of massive conspiracies than trial lawyers. The shitstorm is only beginning, and the Catholic hierarchy in America is in for a nightmarishly long and rough ride.

[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Stephen Maturin ]</p>