Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sullster · 12-14-2002, 03:03 PM

The Pope has allowed the RC Church's friend and protector of child raping priests, Boston's Cardinal Law,(Bernie the Pimp), to resign his job as overseer of the Boston flock. It took a while, but things go slowly when it comes time to getting rid of a cardinal who always did his best to comfort and protect child raping men of the cloth.

My questions are these: Is the sacking of Law the end or the beginning of this crisis? Are more cardinals and bishops going to be booted out around the USA and the world? Is this the greatest upheaval in the church since Marty Luther and his fundies? How will this medieval institution deal with this scandal ultimately?

This is a big story. This is the first Cardinal relieved of command by the High Command in Rome because of public and clerical pressure. Is the catholic hierarchy shattered? Is Law the sacrificial lamb who had to go in order to save the butts of the church? All the men acting in the medieval costume party in the Vatican are sure being rocked by this issue.

Philosoft · 12-14-2002, 05:57 PM

So does this mean Law is available for prosecution? Is he going to be charged with any crime(s)?

galiel · 12-14-2002, 06:48 PM

So far, because of the lack of Massachusetts state laws addressing this kind of situation (believe it or not!), the Attorney General's office says they have not found anything to charge him under--yet.

The fact that he is a citizen now does not matter, since he did what he did under the Church umbrella and they are largely immune to the kind of disclosure requirements that everyone else is.

This is one of the reasons some observers think the threat to file bankrupcty (which came today in the form of blackmail, threatened if the deposition of Law was not delayed) is not real, because the Church would never want its finances exposed to bankrupcty proceedings. The last thing they want is for people to know where all the money has really gone (remember, they do not have to disclose such information the way any other not-for-profit does. They are holy, after all).

There are over 500 known cases in Massachusetts alone at the moment, and insiders say even more damaging and horrific disclosures are yet to come.

There is a not insignificant possibility that, if the noose starts to tighten around Law, that the Pope might send him to some other country (one without an extradition treaty with the US) to serve in some official capacity. He might even gain diplomatic immunity if he works directly for the Vatican.

As I posted elsewhere, Law lives in a multimillion dollar mansion, is driven around in expensive limos, and has (had?) a large staff, many of whose sole purpose is PR and press handling. No life of poverty for this man of god.

lunachick · 12-14-2002, 07:02 PM

I think the law suits will not actually affect the Vatican, as the Vatican is not only the head of the RC, but a country in it's own right; and you can't sue a country.

Philosoft · 12-14-2002, 07:04 PM

In the event Law emerges unscathed, what do you think are the chances for the following to happen:

1. Huge public outcry over Law's escape act.

2. Legislation intended to prevent this from happening.

3. Retroactive application of said legislation to the existing cases.

Shake · 12-15-2002, 06:02 AM

I did hear that there was another Bishop (not in the Boston area, but I can't recall exactly where) who was considering retirement too.

Do I think it'll change things? Well, I think it's about time he stepped down, and probably some others should as well. I think it's a step in the right direction, but the Church as a whole needs some major help. I feel the same way about their decision earlier this year on what actions to pursue with abusive priests. It didn't go as far as many of us would like to have seen, but it's a step. And the Catholic Church has often taken decades (if not longer) to take even baby steps like this.

sullster · 12-15-2002, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Philosoft:
So does this mean Law is available for prosecution? Is he going to be charged with any crime(s)?

Law,(Bernie the Pimp), would be prosecuted if he was a member of any other organization than the church. Can anyone imagine the president of a Boy's Club being accused of allowing sports coaches to molest boys and then moving them to other clubs? The guy would be behind bars in a flash.

The problem here in Boston is the reality that there are so many Catholics here. Although there is much public outcry, the higher state authorities are very frightened of offending the catholic public. Attorney-general Riley is a potential governor candidate some day and certainly doesn't want to be the guy who put the good cardinal,(Bernie the Pimp), in the can. He much more interested in going after Bill Gates and Microsoft with anti-monopoly suits.

It is a shame, because Bernie is an outrageous criminal. He should be in prison.

Gemma Therese · 12-17-2002, 09:36 AM

Quote:

No life of poverty for this man of God.[/QB]

Rightfully so. Diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty. Relgious men and women (monks, nuns, brothers, and sisters) and religious order priests (Dominicans, Franciscans, etc) take a vow of poverty.

Get your information straight.

Gemma Therese

[ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: Gemma Therese ]

Wyz_sub10 · 12-17-2002, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
Diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty. Relgious men and women (monks, nuns, brothers, and sisters) and religious order priests (Dominicans, Franciscans, etc) take a vow of poverty.

This is incorrect.

Diocesan priests and those of a religious order are not mutually exclusive. Many (if not most) Dominican, Franciscan and Jesuit preists are also diocesan priests.

Cardinal Law is a Jesuit priest, and Jesuits do take a vow of poverty (along with chastity and obediance)

<a href="http://www.jesuits-chi.org/vocations/formation.htm" target="_blank">The Jesuits</a>

Only some orders (Baslians, for instance) do not head a church, but rather teach or do missionary work.

Goliath · 12-17-2002, 11:10 AM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is exactly how the US should handle this RCC priest pedophile crisis:

1. All priests that are convicted of child rape or molestation will spend the rest of their lives in prison (possibly with mandatory castration--the jury's still out on that). Any church(es) that said pedophile priest was in charge of will be IMMEDIATELY siezed by the government.

2. If it is found that any priest/bishop/etc. is in any way, shape, or form hiding information pertaining to child abuse by priests, then said priests who are hiding the information will spend the rest of their lives in prison, and whatever church(es) that they had control over will be IMMEDIATELY siezed by the government.

3. If the Pope disagrees, then that's too bad. If necessary, the US should invade Vatican city to ensure that 1. and 2. can be carried out.

Sincerely,

Goliath

PS No, none of the above was in any way satirical.

(edited because I forgot an important part of 1.)

[ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: Goliath ]

12-14-2002, 03:03 PM	#1
sullster Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: North of Boston Posts: 1,392	See Ya Cardinal Law! Wouldn't want to be ya! The Pope has allowed the RC Church's friend and protector of child raping priests, Boston's Cardinal Law,(Bernie the Pimp), to resign his job as overseer of the Boston flock. It took a while, but things go slowly when it comes time to getting rid of a cardinal who always did his best to comfort and protect child raping men of the cloth. My questions are these: Is the sacking of Law the end or the beginning of this crisis? Are more cardinals and bishops going to be booted out around the USA and the world? Is this the greatest upheaval in the church since Marty Luther and his fundies? How will this medieval institution deal with this scandal ultimately? This is a big story. This is the first Cardinal relieved of command by the High Command in Rome because of public and clerical pressure. Is the catholic hierarchy shattered? Is Law the sacrificial lamb who had to go in order to save the butts of the church? All the men acting in the medieval costume party in the Vatican are sure being rocked by this issue.

12-17-2002, 11:10 AM	#10
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is exactly how the US should handle this RCC priest pedophile crisis: 1. All priests that are convicted of child rape or molestation will spend the rest of their lives in prison (possibly with mandatory castration--the jury's still out on that). Any church(es) that said pedophile priest was in charge of will be IMMEDIATELY siezed by the government. 2. If it is found that any priest/bishop/etc. is in any way, shape, or form hiding information pertaining to child abuse by priests, then said priests who are hiding the information will spend the rest of their lives in prison, and whatever church(es) that they had control over will be IMMEDIATELY siezed by the government. 3. If the Pope disagrees, then that's too bad. If necessary, the US should invade Vatican city to ensure that 1. and 2. can be carried out. Sincerely, Goliath PS No, none of the above was in any way satirical. (edited because I forgot an important part of 1.) [ December 17, 2002: Message edited by: Goliath ]</p>

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12-14-2002, 05:57 PM	#2
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	So does this mean Law is available for prosecution? Is he going to be charged with any crime(s)?

12-14-2002, 06:48 PM	#3
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	So far, because of the lack of Massachusetts state laws addressing this kind of situation (believe it or not!), the Attorney General's office says they have not found anything to charge him under--yet. The fact that he is a citizen now does not matter, since he did what he did under the Church umbrella and they are largely immune to the kind of disclosure requirements that everyone else is. This is one of the reasons some observers think the threat to file bankrupcty (which came today in the form of blackmail, threatened if the deposition of Law was not delayed) is not real, because the Church would never want its finances exposed to bankrupcty proceedings. The last thing they want is for people to know where all the money has really gone (remember, they do not have to disclose such information the way any other not-for-profit does. They are holy, after all). There are over 500 known cases in Massachusetts alone at the moment, and insiders say even more damaging and horrific disclosures are yet to come. There is a not insignificant possibility that, if the noose starts to tighten around Law, that the Pope might send him to some other country (one without an extradition treaty with the US) to serve in some official capacity. He might even gain diplomatic immunity if he works directly for the Vatican. As I posted elsewhere, Law lives in a multimillion dollar mansion, is driven around in expensive limos, and has (had?) a large staff, many of whose sole purpose is PR and press handling. No life of poverty for this man of god.

12-14-2002, 07:02 PM	#4
lunachick Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NZ Posts: 7,895	I think the law suits will not actually affect the Vatican, as the Vatican is not only the head of the RC, but a country in it's own right; and you can't sue a country.

12-14-2002, 07:04 PM	#5
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	In the event Law emerges unscathed, what do you think are the chances for the following to happen: 1. Huge public outcry over Law's escape act. 2. Legislation intended to prevent this from happening. 3. Retroactive application of said legislation to the existing cases.

12-15-2002, 06:02 AM	#6
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	I did hear that there was another Bishop (not in the Boston area, but I can't recall exactly where) who was considering retirement too. Do I think it'll change things? Well, I think it's about time he stepped down, and probably some others should as well. I think it's a step in the right direction, but the Church as a whole needs some major help. I feel the same way about their decision earlier this year on what actions to pursue with abusive priests. It didn't go as far as many of us would like to have seen, but it's a step. And the Catholic Church has often taken decades (if not longer) to take even baby steps like this.

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