Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amen-Moses · 10-30-2002, 06:04 AM

Can any of our language experts tell me if the name "Arimathea" actually means something, i.e in the original Greek could the term give any clues as to where or what it may have been referring to?

Cheers,
Amen-Moses

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Amen-Moses ]

CX · 10-30-2002, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses:
Can any of our language experts tell me if the name "Arimathea" actually means something, i.e in the original Greek could the term give any clues as to where or what it may have been referring to?

Cheers,
Amen-Moses

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Amen-Moses ]

According to Thayer&Smith's and "Large Kittel" the Greek word ARIMAQAEA comes from the Hebrew and literally means "heights". There were several towns in Palestine in antiquity referred to by this name. One source I read claims that the Arimathaea referred to in the Gospels is the same as the birth place of Samuel in Mount Ephraim.

Amen-Moses · 10-30-2002, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CX:


According to Thayer&Smith's and "Large Kittel" the Greek word ARIMAQAEA comes from the Hebrew and literally means "heights". There were several towns in Palestine in antiquity referred to by this name. One source I read claims that the Arimathaea referred to in the Gospels is the same as the birth place of Samuel in Mount Ephraim.

Thanks CX, so basically instead of the name of a town or city it could be a colloquial term somewhat like the Scottish "Highlands".

Joseph the highlander, cool.

Amen-Moses

10-30-2002, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CX:


According to Thayer&Smith's and "Large Kittel" the Greek word ARIMAQAEA comes from the Hebrew and literally means "heights".

Sounds about right. Joseph the wily enterprenuer came down from his lofty position to "give an account of himself" in "the valley of the Ganges" and as if he was "pregnant with dispair" (Finnigans Wake) he gave birth to the "little fist" (WE) within.

Best ever description of this sentiment is from Golding while looking back on his own life (which was the construction of his ego consciousness that towered high above sanity like a church spire above its hossaning heads):

. . . "winced at any rate up here, where solidity balanced in midair among the birds, held its breath over a diminishing series of squares with a round hole at the bottom which was nevertheless the top."

offa · 10-30-2002, 04:58 PM

Offa; Joseph of Arithmea was "Joseph the servant of Agrippa". When Jesus was defrocked during the crucifixion his brother James became "Joseph" and the inheritance of the family of David was assumed by him. James delivered the medicines that were used to revive Jesus who forever lost his position (it is finished) as the Davidic heir. This Joseph of Arithmea became the "Gardener" whom Jesus was mistaken for. The "Gardener" is the patriarch (a.k.a. Adam the Gardener) of the clan. Jesus lost this stature even though he survived the crucifixion.

Toto · 10-30-2002, 10:34 PM

Prior discussion in this thread:

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000182&p=" target="_blank">Joseph of Arimathea a fictional character</a>

From Peter Kirby's post there:

Quote:

There is evidence that Joseph of Arimathea is a fictional character and that the tomb burial story in the Gospel of Mark is also fictional. Roy Hoover notes, �the location of Arimathea has not (yet) been identified with any assurance; the various 'possible' locations are nothing more than pious guesses or conjectures undocumented by any textual or archaeological evidence.� (In Paul Copan & Ronald K. Tacelli, ed., Jesus� Resurrection: Fact or Ficment?: A Debate Between William Lane Craig & Gerd Ludemann (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 133.)

Richard Carrier speculates, �Is the word a pun on 'best disciple,' ari[stos] mathe[tes]? Matheia means 'disciple town' in Greek; Ari- is a common prefix for superiority.� (private correspondence) Since commentators have seen the burial by the outsider Joseph of Arimathea as a contrast to the failure of the disciples and intimates of Jesus, the coincidence that Arimathea can be read as �best disciple town� is staggering. Indeed, it is good evidence that Joseph of Arimathea is a fictional character and that the tomb burial story in the Gospel of Mark is also fictional.

Amen-Moses · 10-31-2002, 05:13 AM

On this map <a href="http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/section10.html" target="_blank">http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/section10.html</a>
there is a town called Arimathea!

The site looks good <a href="http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/maps.html" target="_blank">http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/maps.html</a> but I don't know how accurate it is.

Amen-Moses

10-31-2002, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:

Since commentators have seen the burial by the outsider Joseph of Arimathea as a contrast to the failure of the disciples and intimates of Jesus, the coincidence that Arimathea can be read as �best disciple town� is staggering. Indeed, it is good evidence that Joseph of Arimathea is a fictional character and that the tomb burial story in the Gospel of Mark is also fictional.

The "best disciple" image exists only because the life of Joseph was carved as if out of stone and this same life he created for himself is what became the burrying place for the ego that initiated and designed the carving.

Juxtapose faith with doubt wherein faith becomes the ark and doubt the burrial tomb. That is, if faith must keep you afloat during the mid-life flood of your life, it is doubt that will be the burrial place for the ego that must be left behind.

Joseph was a fictional character in all four Gosples. Joseph represents our ego identity which is an illusion for everybody. The problem is that it seems real to us and if we have an earnest desire to be set free from the cause of pain and suffering we may wish to adress our own ego (Joseph) identity and that is what the Gospels are all about.

CX · 11-01-2002, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses:


Thanks CX, so basically instead of the name of a town or city it could be a colloquial term somewhat like the Scottish "Highlands".

Joseph the highlander, cool.

Amen-Moses

I'm not sure it's as cut and dried as that. There may or may not have been multiple towns called ARIMIQAEA in ancient palestine. Obviously the etymology is also such that the name could serve a literary purpose to whit "The Heights" is a place a rich man might come from. Ultimately I think speculation that JofA is a literary creation serving a specific narrative purpose is reasonable. The whole trial before pilate, burial etc. is highly dubious given the actual culture and practices of the period. Basically if you need a poor peasant buried in an expensive tomb to lay the foundation for a resurrection story, you need a rich guy to provide the tomb.

Toto · 11-01-2002, 12:28 PM

The idea that rich people live in "the heights" sounds like a modern notion from American cities, especially LA, where rich people live on the hills so they can avoid the air pollution of the city traffic. Was it the practice in 30 CE for rich people to live in the heights?

10-30-2002, 06:04 AM	#1
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	A question about Arimathea. Can any of our language experts tell me if the name "Arimathea" actually means something, i.e in the original Greek could the term give any clues as to where or what it may have been referring to? Cheers, Amen-Moses [ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Amen-Moses ]</p>

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10-30-2002, 04:58 PM	#5
offa Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Monroeville, Ohio, USA Posts: 440	Offa; Joseph of Arithmea was "Joseph the servant of Agrippa". When Jesus was defrocked during the crucifixion his brother James became "Joseph" and the inheritance of the family of David was assumed by him. James delivered the medicines that were used to revive Jesus who forever lost his position (it is finished) as the Davidic heir. This Joseph of Arithmea became the "Gardener" whom Jesus was mistaken for. The "Gardener" is the patriarch (a.k.a. Adam the Gardener) of the clan. Jesus lost this stature even though he survived the crucifixion.

10-31-2002, 05:13 AM	#7
Amen-Moses Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Portsmouth, England Posts: 4,652	On this map <a href="http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/section10.html" target="_blank">http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/section10.html</a> there is a town called Arimathea! The site looks good <a href="http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/maps.html" target="_blank">http://www.iath.virginia.edu/mls4n/maps.html</a> but I don't know how accurate it is. Amen-Moses

11-01-2002, 12:28 PM	#10
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The idea that rich people live in "the heights" sounds like a modern notion from American cities, especially LA, where rich people live on the hills so they can avoid the air pollution of the city traffic. Was it the practice in 30 CE for rich people to live in the heights?

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