Peter Kirby

I have a basic converter written up in JavaScript here:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/h...onversion.html

Please point out the flaws. And remember that I don't know Hebrew at all.

best,
Peter Kirby

Haran

Cool! Thanks much, Peter!

I was right in the middle of creating one, but it's a real hackjob since I don't know JS very well. I'll probably continue anyway just to learn, and then put both the Greek and Hebrew on my website too.

P.S. - Observations:

I'm not sure I understand how you did it, but you even got the Hebrew to print right-to-left! (...except in the HTML window - which might cause a problem for someone cutting and pasting that text)

Something about the backwards text that I haven't figured out yet... If you try to include a bracket - { } or [ ] - or some such thing, it screws up the right-to-left order. The Yiddish coverter that I posted does the same thing. Drives me nuts... The brackets might come in handy for representing breaks in text (e.g. DSS or NT MS lacunae).

I just realized that the M-C Codes do not include "final forms". It would be nice to make use of those. I don't know if there is another popular encoding scheme other than M-C that defines them.

Finally, it might also be nice to see the vowels represented, but that may be difficult.

TEST
האיש הלך אל הבית

Hmm... I guess it just knows to print it right-to-left...

Signed,
הָרן
formerly:
איׁש

TheGreatInfidel

I'm one of those unfortunate hispanics to be given the name "Jesus". I find it very ironic. Luckily I was given more than one name [as most hispanics ], so I just go by my middle name. I simply initial the "J". I'll probably have it legally changed to Judas. Just for the hell of it!

Peter Kirby

Haran, what is the rule for "final forms"? Maybe the program can be made to recognize when the letter is supposed to be printed as a final form.

And if you want to see how the program works, simply view the source.

best,
Peter Kirby

Haran

There are five letters which have "final forms": Kaf, Mem, Nun, Pe, and Tsade.

Normal form:
Kaf - כ
Mem - מ
Nun - נ
Pe - פ
Tsade - צ

Final form:
Kaf - ך
Mem - ם
Nun - ן
Pe - ף
Tsade - ץ

The "final forms" of these letters come at the end of words, so I suppose if one of these letters comes before a space it could be converted to its final form. In Unicode, the "final forms" come before (are one less than) their normal forms.

As you can see, I tried vowels on my monikers above. It didn't work so well. It looks like you have to place the vowel before the letter the vowel goes with. This works fine except for the very first letter. For some reason it would place the first vowel at the beginning of the line and then, with the first letter, it would start doing the right-to-left thing...

Ish
ִאיׁש
(The hireq or "little dot" at the beginning of the line is supposed to be underneath the aleph. However, the dot which creates the shin worked - this is not a vowel point; it distiguishes between two letters with the same sign - sin & shin.)

Haran
ָהָרן
(The qamets or "little T" at the beginning of the line is supposed to be underneath the He. The qamets under the resh is correct. Note the "final form" of Nun at the end of the word/name Haran.)

I did. Thanks. I just couldn't figure out how you were flipping the letters right-to-left, but it looks like the Unicode takes care of that somehow.

emotional

No no no! Hebrew isn't like Arabic! Letterforms in Hebrew aren't contextually analysed like Arabic letterforms are. In Arabic you have one Unicode codepoint for all four letterforms (eg 0627 for initial, medial, final and isolate forms of the Arabic letter Alef), but in Hebrew those five letters which have final forms have them encoded separately (eg ordinary Nun and final Nun have two different Unicode codepoints).

הרן אתה חמור גדול

anakata

OT, but: Regarding how to play CGI in C, check http://www.prq.to/shorturl.c . It only does GET though. BTW, you're not the only one writing CGIs in C :-).

Haran

You restated exactly what I thought I expressed. I guess I wasn't very clear.

As one can see from Alan Wood's page on Hebrew Unicode, the "normal form" of kaf is 1499 whereas the "final form" of kaf is 1498. This is what I meant by "the 'final forms' come before (are one less than) their "normal forms".

The other part that you quoted: "The "final forms" of these letters come at the end of words, so I suppose if one of these letters comes before a space it could be converted to its final form."

By this, I was not saying how the conversion actually happens. I was stating how Peter's program might recognize when to use the "final form" of a letter. Perhaps you have a better idea.

I don't know all that much about Unicode and how/why it works the way it does, so feel free to enlighten me.

I have to say that I'm not exactly sure how to take the phrase "Haran you are a big ass"... I certainly hope there is some higher rabbinic meaning you are trying to get across.

If not, then

emotional

The 5x2 ordinary and final letterforms of Mem, Nun, Kaph, Tsadi and Peh are given separate Unicode codepoints and separate keys on Hebrew keymaps (eg ordinary Nun is on the B keycap on my keyboard, final Nun on the I keycap). The reason they're kept separate, unlike in Arabic, is that the ordinary forms are sometimes used at the end of the word instead of the final forms, especially in transliteration of foreign words and in Yiddish. (and in the Hebrew Bible the reverse is also true in a few cases. See Isaiah 9:6 for an example).

So whereas in Arabic the choice of letterform (initial, medial, final or isolated) is made by the display software of the computer, in Hebrew it is the typist who chooses whether to use the ordinary or the final form of the five letters. That's why Arabic letters get a single codepoint and a single keycap for all 4 letterforms of each letter, whereas the five Hebrew dual-letters get separate codepoints and separate keycaps. Therefore typing a final Nun at the end of the word is entirely up to you; the computer won't change your ordinary Nun to a final Nun just because you placed it in the end (whereas, in Arabic, in contrast, if you place a Nun at the end of the word the computer will display it in its final form).

It was a joke and a way of showing off Hebrew

DeLurking

Because it´s the only way to pronounce it*. If we wanted to say 'jesus' we would spell it Yésus.

*at least in Spain.