Amos

We are all on the correct path and all is the way it is because all is predestined to be just as it is.

Liana is rebellious these days but only to her own prior convictions that were planted there to entice this rebellion ("sinfull passion roused by the law"). This reminds me of rabbits (lol), whom when raised together will never copulate but when you remove the male from the female for a week or so ("sinfull passion roused by the law") and then reintroduce them he bangs her so hard he falls over backwards when done.

Here is a scripture to support your notion of "true belief" (which I understand to be within the restraints of natural law) "Gal.5:4 "Any of you who seek your justification in the law have severed yourself from Christ and fallen from Gods favor!" Notice the exclamation mark which is not mine.

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Amos

With or without God the point remains that all is dukkha and good does not exist in a relative world. It is just a figment of your imagination but is good for you at this time.

Paradisedreams2

We are all on the correct path and all is the way it is because all is predestined to be just as it is

I think the same thing, but I can't help at getting annoyed at the "moral police" lol! I suppose the harm I endured served purpose for my own sight, so I'm glad for it

Rabbits humping? I expected more from you Amos

James AD

I think this thread belongs in Miscellaneous Religious Discussions, but I want to put in my two cents.

If you want to plead to christians that non-believers are nice people too, I think you are wasting your time. We are not the ones up on the pulpit ranting against innocent people with slanderous lies. We don't need to beg for understanding. They are the ones who are harming people. Tell them they are wrong.

We only owe courtesy to actual, living, flesh and blood people, not to mythical beings. Preachers are very threatened by non-believers. Just by admitting out loud what we believe, we are branding them mistaken at best, frauds at the worst. We won't pay them to enlighten us and we encourage others not to as well, if only by our visibility. Being good only makes us more of a threat.

Amos

No Pd, you missed the point. Moses must have thought that if it worked for rabits it must work for humans too and that is where the inspiration came from.

Paradisedreams2

Amos,
I was sincerely just busting on your example lol!

Kim

Paradisedreams2

If you want to plead to christians that non-believers are nice people too, I think you are wasting your time. We are not the ones up on the pulpit ranting against innocent people with slanderous lies. We don't need to beg for understanding. They are the ones who are harming people. Tell them they are wrong.

James I'm a Christian and no one needs to plead with me about "unbelievers" not being nice people (are ya following this post?) There are some christians like myself who don't even go to church or who care either way if someone believes like them or not. Its MY belief that it doesn't matter at all, I myself have often cut in on christians being jerks to Athiests. I think Athiests are great where they are. I'll never try to convert anyone, I don't feel the need to.

But lets just look for a moment you say "Us Christians" lumping us together as a group who hurts others (I know because I've been on the recieving end of their blows and left) But arent you doing the same thing back on this thread by assuming I'm just like every Christian?

I've met some Athiests here I absolutely love and think more highly of them then myself. I think Athiests ask the best questions and are MORE honest then most christians I know. But you "become" no better then they by walking in the same way and in the same manner as them with the only difference being your not a "believer".

I'm saying that because I see integrity in your post when it comes to observations about the whole "religious thing" I see what you see and find validation in your complaint which is mine also. But don't be like "them" by grouping people and seeing people as most of them do. What you clearly see as wrong (as I see you do in your post) what point is there taking a perspective toward all Christians in the same way?


You can see as you like everyone does but what real difference sets you and them apart by following the same course? Do you know what I mean?

Kim

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Paradisedreams2 ]</p>

NOGO

Frankly this thread borders on the twilight zone.

I would not plead to Christians or any religious group that non-believers can and are usually as good any Cristians.

Believers to me are people who want to impose their way of thinking on others. They are currently on their best behaviour simply because none of them have political power. History shows us what political power does to believers.

Today everyone can hold and express their thoughts and belief as they see fit. This is no thanks to religion. Believers are incapable of creating such a society.

We have the holier-than-thou attitude which motivates many believers. We have the fear of eternal punishment. We have the hope of eternal reward. And finally the hope of eternal punishment for their enemies. A wonderful lot that believers are.

I do what I do because I believe it to be right.
No fear of punishment. No hope of reward.

Can unbelievers be as good as a Christian?
The real question is this:
Can Christians be as good as unbelievers?

LianaLi

Honestly, I'm searching for biblical evidence of the attitude expressed. I know the misconception is prevalent, I had to get rid of within myself even. It's a long process to get the wool pulled away from the eyes, yeah?

Once I was able to pinpoint the sources of my fear in various biblical passages, I realize it was actually part of the doctrine. It's in the bible even, there's passages which state as much. I was wondering about other people's experience with this attitude, or if it was an experience unique to me. If so, I can say religion wasn't that bad. If If it is something universally experienced by many former believers, then I can decide that religion was a distinct handicap to forming the ability to make moral judgements independent of a cross.

OTOH, I also realize that many church doctrines and arguements come from secondary sources, which futher interpret the bible, expound beliefs, and define religion. First example that comes to mind is Pascal's wager. In that case are there other sources that I'm not aware of?

Secondly, I think attacking that misconception is rather central to establishing harmonious relations with believers. We all have to live on this planet together, right? If one can establish that one can make good judgement calls without the aide of religion, then one has taken away another function of religion. Yet another step towards independence from god.

And thank you, Paradisedreams2, and Amos, for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about.


-Liana

edited for spelling and typos

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: LianaLi ]</p>

lpetrich

I wonder why LianaLi still has to attend Bible study, despie rejecting religion. Is there some way that she can weasel out of that? Unless it's something entirely secular, which views the Bible on the level with the Iliad and the Odyssey.