Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ierrellus · 03-25-2002, 09:23 AM

Here are a few questions for fundies. Please state your own.

1. In the perfection Of Heaven, how did an angel (Lucifer} fall from the sin of pride? Do you mean there were sins in Heaven before humans were created?

2. If there was war in Heaven, doesn't that set a precedent for war on Earth?

3. In a cosmic (angels vs angels) controversy, what have I to do with that?

4. If Adam had innocence, he would not understand what disobedience is. Would anyone condemn an infant for not knowing what adults are all about?

5. Why did God wait 2,000 years to become a Christian?

6. Why does Job's God claim "He" created good and evil ?

7. Did God love David's slaughter of the "unchosen majority"?

8. Did Paul lose all feeling for Jesus by formulating Christianity?

9. Could Augustine see past his sexual problems?

10. Are you truobled by fear, shame and guilt, the essential motivations of your beliefs?

Ierrellus

David Bowden · 03-25-2002, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ierrellus:
Here are a few questions for fundies. Please state your own.

Some of those were... slanted a wee bit, yes?

Here's one to add:

-Before you were a Christian, did you believe that there were valid reasons for not believing? If so, what were those reasons and how have those reasons been shown to be invalid, in your opinion?

(I have yet to encounter a believer who actually understood the strong case against Christianity prior to converting. The virus of faith seems to spread on contact with uncritical, underinformed minds.)

-Wanderer

03-25-2002, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ierrellus:
Here are a few questions for fundies. Please state your own.

1. In the perfection Of Heaven, how did an angel (Lucifer} fall from the sin of pride? Do you mean there were sins in Heaven before humans were created?

Sin did not exist in Eden (the mind of man) but was created when the image "like god" was formed in Eden outside of Heaven (TOK as opposed to TOL). Hence the fig leave to show pride and shame as opposite to "no shame" in Gen.2:25.

Your fail to distinguish between man and human and that man was created but not human. Our human identity is a conjecture of our imagination wherein only we can die because we keep track of time.

2. If there was war in Heaven, doesn't that set a precedent for war on Earth? 

It does, but that is only to keep Truth alive. Notice that there is sufficient grounds for war on earth because the TOK "is good for food, and desirable for gaining wisdom and beauty" and so is the TOK is needed to keep truth alive.

Conversely, if peace on earth was real heaven would be redundant.

3. In a cosmic (angels vs angels) controversy, what have I to do with that?

Because it is your mind we are discussing here.

4. If Adam had innocence, he would not understand what disobedience is. Would anyone condemn an infant for not knowing what adults are all about?

Adam was never created nor formed but is the conjectured ego awareness built upon the Tree of Knowledge. Our ego is not condemned but should be prized above all else but should never enslave us until we die. It is a protestant misconception that the fall of man was wrong and that we are basically evil.

5. Why did God wait 2,000 years to become a Christian? 

You mean 4000 years, I think. He did not because many before Christ were one with God. Jesus became Christ to show the Children of Israel how to get out of the promised land because too many died there from unbelief. 

6. Why does Job's God claim "He" created good and evil ?

Never read Job but the creation of good and evil is equal to the expulsion from paradise. 

7. Did God love David's slaughter of the "unchosen majority"?

Of course because non truth cannot be tied in heaven. "What is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven" means the same thing.

8. Did Paul lose all feeling for Jesus by formulating Christianity?

????

9. Could Augustine see past his sexual problems? 

The sinner. He was just grateful for them because they were the ideals that exhausted his ego.

10. Are you truobled by fear, shame and guilt, the essential motivations of your beliefs?

Blind faith juxtaposed with the courage to succeed is needed to exhaust the human will.

JL · 03-25-2002, 12:12 PM

You're mind scares me Amos.

Ierrellus · 03-26-2002, 02:47 AM

Amos,

Yes, I made an egregious error in question 5. If I remember correctly, Bishop Usher says the world began in 4,004BC, at !0:00 AM, Thursday morning. The 4 is added because in the 6th cent. AD, calendar makers were wondering what to do with the fact that the Herod who had the babies killed died of syphilis in 4BC. Consequently the last millenium ended in 1996.

ll. What can any human do, in the fly speck of existence, to merit an eternity of reward or punishment?

12. Since DNA is responsible for transfer of inheritance, on which chromosome is the gene for original sin?

No Fundy would answer as you do, Amos.

Ierrellus

beachbum · 03-26-2002, 06:37 AM

Amos

Did someone steal your meds again?

03-26-2002, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ierrellus:
Amos,

Yes, I made an egregious error in question 5. If I remember correctly, Bishop Usher says the world began in 4,004BC, at !0:00 AM, Thursday morning. The 4 is added because in the 6th cent. AD, calendar makers were wondering what to do with the fact that the Herod who had the babies killed died of syphilis in 4BC. Consequently the last millenium ended in 1996.

The Judaic myth was created by mythmakers about 6000 years ago and at that time heaven was first juxtaposed with earth. Heaven is a spiritual mature state of mind and to connect this with the concept "earth below and heaven above" is clever because it is deceiving to makes followers look for signs of the times all over the world.

Herod was the human ruler of the subconscious mind wherein the Christ child was born and to kill this child would be to transfom the potential Divine comedy into a Senecan tragedy (these two are opposites). In a not-so-divine or Senecan tragedy, Herod remains in power of which the paradox "sinful yet saved" is evidence. Notice that in Luke 23:12, Herod from the subconscius mind and Pilate from the consciuos mind have become friends and actually speak highly in favor for the release of "this man" (three times the word "this man" is used to convey this) while the Jews were after the "Jesus-the-Jew" image of "this man."

What I find so ironic is that fundy Christians, eg. Baptist and other "born again" sects, do not recognize that their own "child within" has been killed and they now want to do this to others who have not yet been born again. Funnier yet, the American government is all in favor and it has become a national sport to be played the world over. In fact, we go to war over it.

ll. What can any human do, in the fly speck of existence, to merit an eternity of reward or punishment?

Just "tell it as it is."

12. Since DNA is responsible for transfer of inheritance, on which chromosome is the gene for original sin?

Original sin is not genetic but incarnate upon man because in the consolidation of our own mind original sin is removed while the chromosomes remain intact.

03-26-2002, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JL:

You're mind scares me Amos.

Take it easy, I am a lover and would not harm anything.

Writer@Large · 03-26-2002, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
6. Why does Job's God claim "He" created good and evil ?

Never read Job but the creation of good and evil is equal to the expulsion from paradise.

How can you profess and maintain faith in a book you haven't even fully read?

--W@L

Ierrellus · 03-26-2002, 08:28 AM

Amos,

My questions were posed for literalists, not free thinkers. Where I came from (deep South), any interpretation of the Bible other than that posed by the born-again is grounds for eternal torment.

Ierrellus <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

03-25-2002, 09:23 AM	#1
Ierrellus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,082	Fundy IQ Questions Here are a few questions for fundies. Please state your own. 1. In the perfection Of Heaven, how did an angel (Lucifer} fall from the sin of pride? Do you mean there were sins in Heaven before humans were created? 2. If there was war in Heaven, doesn't that set a precedent for war on Earth? 3. In a cosmic (angels vs angels) controversy, what have I to do with that? 4. If Adam had innocence, he would not understand what disobedience is. Would anyone condemn an infant for not knowing what adults are all about? 5. Why did God wait 2,000 years to become a Christian? 6. Why does Job's God claim "He" created good and evil ? 7. Did God love David's slaughter of the "unchosen majority"? 8. Did Paul lose all feeling for Jesus by formulating Christianity? 9. Could Augustine see past his sexual problems? 10. Are you truobled by fear, shame and guilt, the essential motivations of your beliefs? Ierrellus

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03-25-2002, 12:12 PM	#4
JL Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Mawkish Virtue, NC Posts: 151	You're mind scares me Amos.

03-26-2002, 02:47 AM	#5
Ierrellus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,082	Amos, Yes, I made an egregious error in question 5. If I remember correctly, Bishop Usher says the world began in 4,004BC, at !0:00 AM, Thursday morning. The 4 is added because in the 6th cent. AD, calendar makers were wondering what to do with the fact that the Herod who had the babies killed died of syphilis in 4BC. Consequently the last millenium ended in 1996. ll. What can any human do, in the fly speck of existence, to merit an eternity of reward or punishment? 12. Since DNA is responsible for transfer of inheritance, on which chromosome is the gene for original sin? No Fundy would answer as you do, Amos. Ierrellus

03-26-2002, 06:37 AM	#6
beachbum Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cocoa Beach, FL Posts: 864	Amos Did someone steal your meds again?

03-26-2002, 08:28 AM	#10
Ierrellus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,082	Amos, My questions were posed for literalists, not free thinkers. Where I came from (deep South), any interpretation of the Bible other than that posed by the born-again is grounds for eternal torment. Ierrellus <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

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