Sole Controller

I don't know, I've been wondering exactly how religions that have been around for a few thousands years gained so much influence over the people in such a short time. Then I began to consider the level of intelligence of the people at the time. It is no wonder how these religions were able to imprison the minds of those people at that time. I mean the literacy rate of those poor people must have been about 10 to 15%. And that only included the elite and the clergy, for the most part. This must be the reason why all of these rituals, superstitions and other uncivilized behaviors that we still see today survived through the centuries. The people could not even interpret their holy scriptures to try and get a personal understanding of the material they were told they were suppose to live by.

Enough babel, my question to the board is this. Do you believe that religions like the ones we see today would have made it with a world population of people as intelligent as we are in this day and age? Please give reasons why you think they would or would not make it.

-RRH-

Try not to overestimate how sophisticated we are.

<a href="http://www.factnet.org/CultGroups.html?FACTNet" target="_blank">FactNet listing of cults</a>

<a href="http://niejedzenie.pl/english/breatharians.html" target="_blank">Breatharians</a>

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: RRH ]</p>

Ojuice5001

I say, yes. Religion is not something anachronistic; it takes its cues from human nature, from a spiritual sense that doesn't change.

Look at what some of the trends in new religions. Fundamentalism is on the rise, with a great emphasis on ritual and obedience to authority. Wicca is on the rise, with a revival of ritual, magic, and reverence for nature. These things are not innovations, but returns to what religion was before the Enlightenment. A hundred years ago, the intellectual establishment thought these religious tendencies were very on the wane, but they're coming back, and often among educated people.

Religion is associated with many other things besides ignorance (including a sense of a real spiritual aspect of the world), and these other things are just as present as they ever were.

Marduk

"Enough babel, my question to the board is this. Do you believe that religions like the ones we see today would have made it with a world population of people as intelligent as we are in this day and age?"

Yes, they abound. We have a higher literacy rate and a larger information base than people 2000 years ago, but as far as intelligence is concerned our brains are no different than theirs.

If you could pluck a baby from 2000 years ago and raise it today it would be the same as anyone else. Even an average full grown person taken from that period would eventually adjust to modern life and after awhile be indistinguishable from any other person.

Eudaimonist

I largely agree with you, though I don't think that rituals are inherently the result of low levels of education. Perfectly good rituals include:

• Marriage ceremonies
• Funerals
• Graduation ceremonies

...and the like.

I suspect that human beings have a natural need for rituals for symbolism. Religion survives because it attempts to meet real human needs, but "cheats" by using unsupportable beliefs.

Sole Controller

I agree with almost everything you have said here. I am aware that some people have this deep spiritual erge to connect with something greater than themselves, but I really wanted to eliminate that particular variable for the sake of argument. I do feel, however, that we are somehow more intelligent than we were 2000+ years ago. In fact, it is my prediction that within the next 200 to 300 years religion will be all but a thing of the past. Granted that there will be a few of the uncivilized still practicing some of the religions of old but they too will fade into obscurity in time. They say time heals all wounds. I only hope that the religions of today are not replaced by new ones, as have been happening over the thousands of years since we first began to practice religion. Once we wean ourselves from the gods, we can began living our lives for us, the human race.

Peace.

Eudaimonist

More intelligent, more educated, or more wise? I'm not sure which you mean.

I admire your optimism. I'm more cautiously optimistic, but it is encouraging to see how religion has already dramatically reduced in influence in some cultures (such as Swedish culture).

This is my hope.

Ojuice5001

From Eudaimonist:

My answers: We are equally intelligent, more educated, and less wise.

On boards that let you display a certain quote at the end of all posts, I use Celsus's quote, "The world is governed by various gods, and divided into provinces. Each nation is run as it ought to be." I think that applies here. What is good for the Swede is good for the Swede, and that is that. But a country like Guatemala belongs to Catholicism (the true Christian church), India belongs to Vishnu, and some territory will become Jupiter's realm (I hope it happens when and where I live). The whole world will not belong to atheism, got it?

Thank you, Sharur. I have a smaller number of things to live for than most people, and it is greatly desirable to have Postverta, Jupiter, and the other Roman gods be one of them. Why don't people want the world to be ruled by the gods? At least atheists don't make an exception for a particular Middle Eastern deity, though.

Eudaimonist

We shall see.

The gods of atheism shall rule all! Bwahahaha!

Just kidding.

But seriously, I tend to agree with you that religion might never disappear entirely from human culture.

I don't want the world ruled by human beings, much less gods, if rule means control over people's destinies. I'd rather create my own destiny. (This isn't why I don't believe in the existence of gods, but I'll admit this emotional disposition.)

BTW, who is Sharur?

[ December 11, 2002: Message edited by: Eudaimonist ]</p>

Monkeybot

I'm gonna kick this one up to General Religion Discussions.