jre

I'm sure we all know how women are treated in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. If you don't know, you haven't been paying much attention.

I was wondering what place women have in other religious practices and societies. Are there any where men and women are equal? Are there any that have women placed above men? What about others that place women below men?

Thanks in advance for any answers you can provide.

deKooning

One of the reasons Christianity grew so rapidly in ancient Rome is due to their respect for women. First, it was attractive to many middle and upper class women because it allowed them many more freedoms they otherwise did not have in Greco-Roman culture. Secondly, Christian communities, with their respect for life, would go to the hillsides and gather the abandoned baby girls the Romans had left for dead, baking in the hot sun. Girls were not prized, and to have more than perhaps one in the family was simply a financial hindrance. The rapid adoption rate of baby girls by Christians at this time was a large contribution to their growth in numbers. To imply that women are mistreated within mainstream Christianity is rather unfair. The moral ethos of our culture is informed mostly by a now secularized Judeo-Christian world view, which includes the concept of "human equality."

In contrast, there is still a practice within Hinduism know as Sati. This is the act of burning the widow of a recently deceased man at the stake because her life is of no value. More info…
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Itha...Soc/w_ary.html

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: deKooning ]

[ August 12, 2001: Message edited by: deKooning ]

Gurdur

This is a tad unfair, de Kooning. The practice of Sati (a.k.a. Suttee)was banned decades ago; and while there have been a couple of very isolated cases since 1890, the practice is largely dead - almost completely so.

I do not include dowry-related murders; these are not widows, and in any case are not justifiable under Hinduism except possibly by the status accorded women.

[ August 11, 2001: Message edited by: Gurdur ]

emotional

The Sikh religion claims to have equality between men and women, and so does the Baha'i religion. But then again, Islam too claims to treat women fairly, although it does not. Certainly the Sikh religion treats women better than Islam or Judaism, but that's no great feat, the comparison ought to be with the infidel West. As for Baha'is, women can serve as religious leaders in all positions except the highest, the Supreme Court of Justice in Acre, which is for men only. See the above links and the Religious Tolerance website for more info.

jess

it was once said by a Roman official that Christianity was a good religion for women and slaves--- because it taught that suffering in this life is repaid with rewards in the next. Paganism generally tells you that this is it--- grab what you can and fight for your rights.

Another reason that Christianity was persectued ibn Roman soldiers.

We need to seperate politics and religion for this discussion to work, IMO.

Muslims claim they treat women better than other religions because of certain rules and policies in the Koran. These are not exactly modern, and were not entirely enacted nor enforced. In addition, these 'new rights' of women were paid for with added restrictions. I would not call it 'fair' or 'liberating' in my western thought.

Relgiously speaking, women tended to be more in charge of the daily religious activities, and in carge of the smaller temples. The larger activities and temples were more often run by men. This does not mean that men ran the more powerful ones, however. Women had power that way. Much of our concept of Zeus/Jupiter woamnizing andleaving a jealous and impotent Hera/Juno at home is a result of the slant mythologists placed on the stories, not exactly the way the stories went. (You can tell how disgusted I am by this by my use of Z/J and H/J when they were completely seperate deities, not 'roman names for the same god' that the 1800's idiots forced upon us)

<deep breath>

While politically and socially women may not have had power in the ancient mediterranian, they did have power religiously, even not including the violent Dionysos rites, which empoweered women to a 'frenzy'.

The gods (worldwide) have a tendancy to be gender indifferent--- with the exception that the 'old ones' the "gods' gods" generally are female--- males and females are no more important than each other, although the social structure loosely mimicked the believers social structure. I am thinking of Odin and Freya here--- although Odin was 'king' of the gods, Freya was more powerful than he was and chose the warriors who had fallen in battle first, leaving the second half for Odin. She is also the one who taught him magic.

This did not liberate women from their roles as childrearer and food cooker, however.

I will not go into the roles of men and women in Hindu societies, as I am sure someone here (hi, hinduwoman) is far far more qualified.

I do know that although Japan has a tendency to misogynistic the top god in Shinto is a goddess. Eastern Native Americans did have a matriarchial society, except in times of war, which was again not mimiced in the religion, with m,ale and female spirits being about equal in impotance...

<deep breath>

I gotta go...

Great topic...

deKooning

Jess: Romans, not understanding the Eucharist, also thought that Christians were cannibals. Misinformation and rumors were abound at that time. Your quote, in that way, is apt.

Gurdur: While the practice is officially banned, the practice is not "isolated" according to my conversations with a noted Indian political activist and his daughter. It is still practiced.

Gurdur

hmm, de Kooning, I'm very sorry to hear that. Would there be any statistics available? I looked for such on the link you gave, but couldn't find any

deKooning

Gurder: I don't have any statistics and I doubt any exist. I am imagining some American field researchers in lab coats watching a malnourished Indian woman getting burned while they scribble down notes and hold their noses. Whether or not you believe my conversations with Mr. Mangwaldi and his daughter are truth bearing is little concern of mine. I would not have posted it were it not reliable in my judgment.

hinduwoman

In hindu religion the carrying on the lineage is most important of all, since the descendant worships the ancestral spirits. therefore the son is of greater value. however there is a ceremony by which an only daughter is designated as a son or her son is appointed to carry out such rites. However the son, even an adopted one, is preferred. But as long as the custom of giving heavy dowries had not come into existence, the birth of a daughter was not a disaster.

+ point: women are not to be blamed for anything since there is no fall. women are not theologically infererior to man since they were created not from man's body but from God's body and simultenously with man. that is why God is also worshipped as 'Ardhanarishawar', halfman and halfwoman.
(That is why I can call myself a hindu without being embarassed).

A woman always should be under the control of father, husband and son. 'But three years after menstruation a woman gains overlordship over herself'. That is how the practice of childmarriage become more popular. but lovemarriages were legal. they had their propertyrights which belonged to them only and it seems that were allowed to enter into business contracts for themselves.

If a husband is missing a specified number of years, dead, become an ascetic, impotent, outcaste (some add a traitor, a murderer also)then the woman shall take a second husband.

In vedic times polyandry seems to have been normal.

Sati seems to be of three types:
voluntary (incidentally, one man burnt himself on the pyre of his wife a week age; so why is that not highlighted?)
life of widow was so miserable that sati was preferred.
Male relatives burnt them forcefully so that they would not have to share property.
However, it is not laid down as a law in the scriptures.

in early ages women seem to have been given the same education as boys and many were teachers.

The main problem today seems to be that a daughter is regarded as destined to go to other people's home as the son carries on the familyname. the result is that dowries have to be given (the female is not going to contribute anything economically to her natal home).

Mother very important. all shastras say, "Mother is a 1000 times holier than the father" and that an outcaste father can be driven out but not a mother.
Why shaktiworship or the cult of the mother goddess became so powerful is yet a mystery. but it helps if a woman is going to carve out a career: you have to show you are very tough and that since you are inspired by her power normal convnetion no longer apply to you. the female politicians for example who made it alone draws on that imagery.

Viewpoints

All you folks, ain't it funny that the one that gives, "nature", gets called mother while women are persecuted against in most cultures, including the liberated west? Hindu scriptures *nowhere* discriminate against women. Against popular belief, Manu was not the *giver* of laws, merely a codifier of prevailing rules and customs in his Dharmasastra. Therefore, treatment (good/bad) to women predates the codification. It has coe very handy for the male gender to cite and discriminate. Please do not confuse human frailites with liberating truths in the ancient scriptures of India.