Chuck

CNN's Talkback live is hosting Rev. Barry Lynn as an advocate of C/S separation.

Every time he speaks, they move him to the bottom quarter of the screen and play a giant video of Congress reciting the pledge or of school children reciting the pledge, with audio. This effectively takes attention away from a rational voice and appeals to emotional fervor.

This is a sad, sad day for the news media in America.

britinusa

Finally got round to reading the ruling. For me, this is a slam dunker, probably one of the easiest rulings those judges have ever made. I don't see how the SCOTUS can shake this one off. The only way they can is by being dishonest, and they would never be dishonest, would they?

frostymama

some idiot congressman on Talkback Live "God to an atheist may simply mean where the Big Bang came from"

WTF???

ksagnostic

Well, I hope you're right. However, in my observation when it comes to broad, populist grandstanding gestures, even legislatures can get organized PDQ. The Right wing republicans would know they would be more likely to short circuit their own efforts if they tried to make too much hay out of this (e.g., by including phrases such as "Whereas this nation was founded upon belief in the God of Christianity") if they were actually serious about changing the constitution. Even a constitutional amendment that would say something to the effect that reference to "god" by the federal governement or the states shall not be considered unconstitutional would leave the door open for a lot of mischief, and would be too golden an opportunity for the Right to pass up.

Still, I hope you're right, and that I'm wrong.

Darwin's Finch

I'm getting damned tired of these "legal experts" the news media are trotting out. To a person, they assure us that this decision will certainly be overturned, but I have yet to hear one of them give reasons for this assurance based on the actual court decision. I have heard "zero" serious analysis.

Have any of these people read the decision? I'm beginning to wonder. It's as if their entire purpose in appearing on TV is to hold the collective hand of distraught, hysterical Christians and let them know that everything will be alright. Soon enough they can go back to running roughshod over everyone with whom they don't agree.

These past ~24 hours must rank among the very worst in America's news media history. The fuckers don't even make a pretense of neutrality and objectivity. I can hardly think of the words to adequately describe my intense loathing and disgust at this point.

Don't even get me started on those bastards in Congress and the White House! <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

nexusflux

The ONE SOLUTION to this ISSUE
by: religion_is_bunk

Found this reasonable solution posted on the yahoo message board:


Here is how we solve this whole problem with the word "God" in the Pledge.

You take a stone tablet and carve the whole Pledge of Allegiance onto it, except you leave the part behind the word "UNDER" blank.

Like this:

I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under _________________, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

Next, you take this stone tablet and air lift it to the top of the Statue of Liberty where it is out of the reach and have the tablet under some sort of video surveillance to avoid the possibility of fraud.

Then President Dubya can address the nation to pray to whatever deity, deities, or other supernatural bogeymen they desire to fill in the blank. (This should be no problem for an omnipotent and omniscient deity who really feels that he/she/it/them should be included in our Pledge.)

For a supernatural deity it shouldn't take long for the blank to be filled. So you give it a couple days and then you air lift the tablet back down off the Statue of Liberty and whatever names have been carved into the stone will then be added to the Pledge.

dimossi

Here is how we solve this whole issue with the word "God" in the Pledge.

You take a stone tablet and carve the whole Pledge of Allegiance onto it, except you leave the part behind the word "UNDER" blank.

Like this:

I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under _________________, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

Next, you take this stone tablet and air lift it to the top of the Statue of Liberty where it is out of the reach and have the tablet under some sort of video surveillance to avoid the possibility of fraud.

Then President Dubya can address the nation to pray to whatever deity, deities, or other supernatural bogeymen they desire to fill in the blank. (This should be no problem for an omnipotent and omniscient deity who really feels that he/she/it/them should be included in our Pledge.)

For a supernatural deity it shouldn't take long for the blank to be filled. So you give it a couple days and then you air lift the tablet back down off the Statue of Liberty and whatever names have been carved into the stone will then be added to the Pledge.

Bill Snedden

Hmmm..IMO, every day is a sad day for the news media in America. "Objectivity" is almost a total sham.

That said, I thought the Rev. Lynn did quite well. But I must say, there was one very important point nobody made. I tried to call in, but the lines were busy.

They had some congressman on opposite Lynn, and he actually had the gall to suggest that anyone who didn't like those two words should just refrain from saying the pledge.

Did I hear that right? Did an elected official of the government of the United States just suggest that citizens should refrain from saying the pledge of allegiance?!? WTF?!?

Several audience members also echoed this idea. What the hell is up with this?!? This has got to be the stupidest non-argument I've ever heard.

I guess if they don't like me burning the flag, they can just look away. If they don't like my porno, they can just look away. I should dance naked in the streets, after all, they can just look away (and probably should ).

Besides that, how does an American citizen "opt out" of the pledge of allegiance?!? How does that work exactly?

This has to be the most patently absurd and offensive thing I've heard yet. From a U.S. Congressman, it's the closest thing I've ever heard to a goverment official actually advocating treason. He should be impeached with all due speed.

I am an American citizen. As such, I want, no, I demand the right to pledge my allegiance to this country with the integrity and pride such a pledge deserves. That a representative of the Federal government, or for that matter, any other citizen, should suggest that I may "opt out" to avoid language with which I don't agree, but which has nothing to do with the pledge itself, is grossly offensive in the extreme.

Ooooh...why I oughta...Rrrrr...Oooh....It's probably a good thing they couldn't take my call...

Bill

GunnerJ

I would suggest that those writing to Dumbya remind him of how he said a few weeks (months?" ago in a speech that there are "many good people of no faith at all."

John Page

Anyone heard from Cheney yet? Maybe he's holed up at Camp Branch Davidian in case of further unprovoked attacks by atheists.