Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jayhawker Soule · 02-05-2002, 02:30 AM

From another thread ...

Quote:

[ Theophilus on Proof: ]
I am not a fan of theistic "proofs," but for the sake of discussion let me pose this question. If you are "really serious" about this, what have you done to confirm/deny the evidence that the Bible is, in fact, the word of God, i.e., historical, prophetic, etc? The number of Old Testament prophesies fulfilled by Jesus approaches the improbility of your 32 digit number. ... There are something like 300 prophecies which Jesus fulfills. I don't know how to calculate the odds that such could occur by chance, but it is substantial.

Quote:

[ A Simple Question: ]
Which one of these 300 do you find most compelling and best substantiated?

Quote:

[ The Theophilus 2-Step: ]
They are all equally compelling and substantiated since they all occur within a redemptive context and serve a unique puropse. Their substantiation rests on their revelation, not on external confirmation.

The question stands.

[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

Jack the Bodiless · 02-05-2002, 04:33 AM

Quote:

I am not a fan of theistic "proofs," but for the sake of discussion let me pose this question. If you are "really serious" about this, what have you done to confirm/deny the evidence that the Bible is, in fact, the word of God, i.e., historical, prophetic, etc?

He missed out scientific. Anyone who has studied paleontology, geology, genetics, astronomy (etc etc etc) knows that Genesis is bunk. Therefore the Bible cannot possibly be the Word of God.

It amuses me that Christian apologists think they can gain knowledge by studying the Bible in isolation, without actually checking it against real-world data to see if it's telling the truth.

If you never bother to look up from the pages of Lord of the Rings, you will never notice that there aren't any elves about.

L.A.F. · 02-07-2002, 12:41 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless:
[QB]

It amuses me that Christian apologists think they can gain knowledge by studying the Bible in isolation, without actually checking it against real-world data to see if it's telling the truth.

Hi guys, I've just joined your website. It's amusing.

What do you mean by, "checking it against real-world data?" You mean material evidence?
You said that because science disproves Genesis,the WHOLE Bible is wrong as a result. The problem with you atheists is that you hold the Bible "guilty until proven innocent." (I would hate to be judged in your courts!)

I would like to tell you a pretty realistic story:

A pastor and a soap maker were just sitting down, and talking, and the topic turned over to religion. The soap maker said to the pastor, "Your Jesus is no good in this world. There are so much criminals, and hypocrites in the world."

The pastor replied, "your soap business is no good in this world. There are so many stink, dirty people." The soap maker replied, "yeah, it only works when you use it." "Same here, the pastor replied."

Jack the Bodiless · 02-07-2002, 01:05 AM

Quote:

What do you mean by, "checking it against real-world data?" You mean material evidence?
You said that because science disproves Genesis,the WHOLE Bible is wrong as a result. The problem with you atheists is that you hold the Bible "guilty until proven innocent." (I would hate to be judged in your courts!)

It is sufficient to prove that the Bible is not inerrant. It is clear that the Bible contains falsehoods: therefore it is worthless as an absolute standard of truth, even if some of it is correct.

Quote:

A pastor and a soap maker were just sitting down, and talking, and the topic turned over to religion. The soap maker said to the pastor, "Your Jesus is no good in this world. There are so much criminals, and hypocrites in the world."

The pastor replied, "your soap business is no good in this world. There are so many stink, dirty people." The soap maker replied, "yeah, it only works when you use it." "Same here, the pastor replied."

To continue the analogy: "Soap is useless anyhow, only reading the Bible can purge you of dirt", the pastor declares. "That's what the Scriptures say, therefore it must be true". Whereupon the soap-maker pours water on his hands and uses his soap to clean them. "See this? Soap works. Therefore your scriptures are wrong about that, at least. So what else might they be wrong about?".

Someone7 · 02-07-2002, 02:13 AM

Has theophilus learned to use UBB code yet?

Jayhawker Soule · 02-07-2002, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by L.A.F.:

Hi guys, I've just joined your website. It's amusing.

I would like to tell you a pretty realistic story:

A pastor and a soap maker were just sitting down, and talking, and the topic turned over to religion. The soap maker said to the pastor, "Your Jesus is no good in this world. There are so much criminals, and hypocrites in the world."

The pastor replied, "your soap business is no good in this world. There are so many stink, dirty people." The soap maker replied, "yeah, it only works when you use it." "Same here, the pastor replied."

Hi L.A.F., I've read your comments. They're amusing.

I would like to tell you some equally inane stories:

The soap maker said to the rabbi, "Your JHVH is no good in this world. There are so much [sic] criminals, and hypocrites in the world." The rabbi replied, ... (etc.)
The soap maker said to the mulla, "Your Allah is no good in this world. There are so much [sic] criminals, and hypocrites in the world." The mulla replied, ... (etc.)
The soap maker said to the swami, "Your gods are no good in this world. There are so much [sic] criminals, and hypocrites in the world." The mulla replied, ... (etc.)
The soap maker said to the wiccan, "Your spirits are good in this world. There are so much [sic] criminals, and hypocrites in the world." The wiccan replied, ... (etc.)

So, L.A.F., your "pretty realistic" point was what, exactly?

Quote:

You said that because science disproves Genesis,the WHOLE Bible is wrong as a result.

Ah. The bible is the inerrant, received word of god -- except where it isn't. Got it. Thanks.

[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

Waning Moon Conrad · 02-07-2002, 03:20 AM

Originally posted by L.A.F.:

Quote:

You said that because science disproves Genesis,the WHOLE Bible is wrong as a result. The problem with you atheists is that you hold the Bible "guilty until proven innocent." (I would hate to be judged in your courts!)

Don't Christians judge the Bible as guilty of being the word of a capricious, psychopathic tyrant of a god and refuse to consider any evidence at all of its innocence in this regard?

[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Waning Moon Conrad ]

lpetrich · 02-07-2002, 04:40 AM

Quote:

LAF:
Hi guys, I've just joined your website. It's amusing.

What do you mean by, "checking it against real-world data?" You mean material evidence?
You said that because science disproves Genesis,the WHOLE Bible is wrong as a result. The problem with you atheists is that you hold the Bible "guilty until proven innocent." (I would hate to be judged in your courts!)

I don't see what you mean, LAF. We Internet Infidels treat the Bible the same way that we treat other "histories". For example, the Roman historian Livy is often relied on as a source for the Roman Republic. But Livy tells the story of Rome having been founded by Romulus and Remus, a story which is usually considered pure fiction.

And how is the story of Romulus and Remus being the sons of a god and a virgin that much more preposterous than the story of Jesus Christ being the son of a god and a virgin?

(LAF on Jesus Christ vs. soap makers...)

However, soap makers are far from omnipotent while Jesus Christ supposedly is omnipotent.

Koyaanisqatsi · 02-07-2002, 05:46 AM

The bible has been found guilty, not simply declared guilty.

Due process has never been so thoroughly applied.

HelenM · 02-07-2002, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by L.A.F.:
Hi guys, I've just joined your website. It's amusing.

Hello L.A.F.

Welcome to this site. I looked at your hobbies...so, is this 'worship' or is this what you say when you're having a break from worship?

Just wondering

love
Helen

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02-07-2002, 12:41 AM	#3
L.A.F. New Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kaneohe, Hawaii Posts: 1	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless: [QB] It amuses me that Christian apologists think they can gain knowledge by studying the Bible in isolation, without actually checking it against real-world data to see if it's telling the truth. Hi guys, I've just joined your website. It's amusing. What do you mean by, "checking it against real-world data?" You mean material evidence? You said that because science disproves Genesis,the WHOLE Bible is wrong as a result. The problem with you atheists is that you hold the Bible "guilty until proven innocent." (I would hate to be judged in your courts!) I would like to tell you a pretty realistic story: A pastor and a soap maker were just sitting down, and talking, and the topic turned over to religion. The soap maker said to the pastor, "Your Jesus is no good in this world. There are so much criminals, and hypocrites in the world." The pastor replied, "your soap business is no good in this world. There are so many stink, dirty people." The soap maker replied, "yeah, it only works when you use it." "Same here, the pastor replied."

02-07-2002, 02:13 AM	#5
Someone7 Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 376	Has theophilus learned to use UBB code yet?

02-07-2002, 05:46 AM	#9
Koyaanisqatsi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Yes, I have dyslexia. Sue me. Posts: 6,508	The bible has been found guilty, not simply declared guilty. Due process has never been so thoroughly applied.

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