Freethought & Rationalism Archive

alek0 · 03-11-2002, 08:37 PM

I've been recently asked why i never pray and don't I feel the need to give thanks. The answer to the latter was simply "No"

I don't see giving thanks any more logical than supplication if there is smth. like "god's plan", though it is definitely less disgusting than "god please take care of my credit card debt" stuff.

If we assume that there is god, I still don't see any point in prayer. If he interferes with what happens on earth, he does it for his own reasons so why give thanks for that. If he doesn't interfere, again why should I give thanks?
All this business with thanking the creator would be like having to thank my father for having sex with my mother which he did for his own pleasure and not for purpose of bringing me into the world.

I really, really don't understand thinking of theists on prayer. Whether for thanks or to ask for something, doesn't make sense at all...

emotional · 03-11-2002, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by alek0:

All this business with thanking the creator would be like having to thank my father for having sex with my mother which he did for his own pleasure and not for purpose of bringing me into the world.

Exactly! It'd be rather a good reason to curse him (or the parents - same thing).

God: "worship me or I'll burn you in hell for eternity".
School bully: "give me a quarter every day or I'll kick the shit out of you".
Conclusion: God is the role model for school bullies worldwide. "God should be worshipped because he is the most powerful" = "might makes right". And they complain about the "violence of evolution"!

babelfish · 03-12-2002, 05:48 AM

What I don't get about prayer is the thinking that God needs to be alerted that somebody needs his help. Isn't he omniscient? Doesn't he know that Aunt Lulu is dying of cancer? Or does he need proof that the individual is worthy of his help as witnessed by the number of other individuals who care enough about her to pray for her?

Or let's say the pray-er himself is requesting something. Does God not know/care about the needs of this person until he hears about them?

God seems like quite a capricious fellow....

scombrid · 03-12-2002, 07:25 AM

Of course an omniscient God knows when you need help. It's all about the choice of asking, admitting that you need him. It's an ego fluffer. He knows you need help, he knows that he can provide that help, but you aren't getting it until you kiss his ass. Even then he might not feel like helping. He might still be mad about walking in on you masturbating that day.

Megatron · 03-12-2002, 07:49 AM

Hmph.. imagine that. Unlimited power, but such a fragile ego.

Mad Kally · 03-12-2002, 08:17 AM

You're all a bunch of skeptics! Prayer works!

All of my terminally ill patients die no matter who is praying or not. However, my fundie mom prayed for my chihuahua to have a bowel movement and it worked! I SAW IT WITH MY VERY OWN EYES!!

Doubting Thomas · 03-12-2002, 08:59 AM

Quote:

However, my fundie mom prayed for my chihuahua to have a bowel movement and it worked! I SAW IT WITH MY VERY OWN EYES!!

Kally, I just printed that off and taped it to the bottom of monitor!

Arguement from bowel?

Oh my...

-T

Jamie_L · 03-12-2002, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zero Angel:
Hmph.. imagine that. Unlimited power, but such a fragile ego.

Makes sense though, doesn't it? There's nothing we can do for an all powerful God except worship him. The only reason we all exist in the first place is to fluff his ego. So, prayer fits the pattern.

Jamie

IvanK · 03-12-2002, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alek0:
If we assume that there is god, I still don't see any point in prayer. If he interferes with what happens on earth, he does it for his own reasons so why give thanks for that. If he doesn't interfere, again why should I give thanks?

A religionist might respond that one should give thanks for one's existence and that of the world, which the Almighty is responsible for sustaining as well as creating. Though that, and the Gospel passage about God knowing what one wants before one prays for it, doesn't stop them from claiming that "prayer works."

Personally, I have been known to offer good wishes alone or when others were present. The similarity between this and a prayer it seems to me is an acknowledgement that my efforts will never be sufficient in themselves to attain the thing wished for. On the other hand, I don't wish for a better job, more money, a happier life or for my English springer spaniel to enjoy digestive health; in general nothing I can accomplish myself or that is within my power to change.

Quote:

All this business with thanking the creator would be like having to thank my father for having sex with my mother which he did for his own pleasure and not for purpose of bringing me into the world.

Um, I'd hope one's opinion of one's own father would really be a little higher than that, but that's your business I guess.

DarkBronzePlant · 03-12-2002, 01:12 PM

I was at a restaurant the other day, and two people at a nearby table had just gotten their food, and were clasping hands praying and giving thanks to the great sky fairy for the food they were about to consume.

Usually I just sort of chuckle to myself, but I starting thinking about it, and got kind of pissed. If you're going to give thanks, why not give thanks to those who deserve it?: The migrant workers picking the food for a buck fifty a day. The farmer who gets his/her add up at the crack of dawn. The minimum-wage workers packaging up the food and getting it shipped out the door.

But no, those two decided that the one who deserved thanks was some invisible, mythical dictator floating around in the sky. It suddenly seemed to fucking arrogant and ridiculous. Yet those two probably thought they were better people because of it.

03-11-2002, 08:37 PM	#1
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	prayers I've been recently asked why i never pray and don't I feel the need to give thanks. The answer to the latter was simply "No" I don't see giving thanks any more logical than supplication if there is smth. like "god's plan", though it is definitely less disgusting than "god please take care of my credit card debt" stuff. If we assume that there is god, I still don't see any point in prayer. If he interferes with what happens on earth, he does it for his own reasons so why give thanks for that. If he doesn't interfere, again why should I give thanks? All this business with thanking the creator would be like having to thank my father for having sex with my mother which he did for his own pleasure and not for purpose of bringing me into the world. I really, really don't understand thinking of theists on prayer. Whether for thanks or to ask for something, doesn't make sense at all...

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03-12-2002, 05:48 AM	#3
babelfish Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Augusta, Maine, USA Posts: 2,046	What I don't get about prayer is the thinking that God needs to be alerted that somebody needs his help. Isn't he omniscient? Doesn't he know that Aunt Lulu is dying of cancer? Or does he need proof that the individual is worthy of his help as witnessed by the number of other individuals who care enough about her to pray for her? Or let's say the pray-er himself is requesting something. Does God not know/care about the needs of this person until he hears about them? God seems like quite a capricious fellow....

03-12-2002, 07:25 AM	#4
scombrid Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Central Florida Posts: 2,759	Of course an omniscient God knows when you need help. It's all about the choice of asking, admitting that you need him. It's an ego fluffer. He knows you need help, he knows that he can provide that help, but you aren't getting it until you kiss his ass. Even then he might not feel like helping. He might still be mad about walking in on you masturbating that day.

03-12-2002, 07:49 AM	#5
Megatron Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: New York Posts: 5,441	Hmph.. imagine that. Unlimited power, but such a fragile ego.

03-12-2002, 08:17 AM	#6
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	You're all a bunch of skeptics! Prayer works! All of my terminally ill patients die no matter who is praying or not. However, my fundie mom prayed for my chihuahua to have a bowel movement and it worked! I SAW IT WITH MY VERY OWN EYES!!

03-12-2002, 01:12 PM	#10
DarkBronzePlant Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 3,568	I was at a restaurant the other day, and two people at a nearby table had just gotten their food, and were clasping hands praying and giving thanks to the great sky fairy for the food they were about to consume. Usually I just sort of chuckle to myself, but I starting thinking about it, and got kind of pissed. If you're going to give thanks, why not give thanks to those who deserve it?: The migrant workers picking the food for a buck fifty a day. The farmer who gets his/her add up at the crack of dawn. The minimum-wage workers packaging up the food and getting it shipped out the door. But no, those two decided that the one who deserved thanks was some invisible, mythical dictator floating around in the sky. It suddenly seemed to fucking arrogant and ridiculous. Yet those two probably thought they were better people because of it.

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