Fiach

It is so commonly used that most Christians hurl the "God-fearing" phrase as a compliment without thinking. Most of Christianity bypasses the unpleasant task of thinking.

God of Christianity puts the first two humans in a garden. He sets up a sting operation. He puts a tree with luring fruiit, the fruit of knowledge. The he tells them in plain English translation. This tree is wonderful, it would make you like us Gods. Then he tells them not to eat the fruit. Following this he condemns them to death and makes the sin hereditary. So far he is a bloody mean wanker.

God later finds some people sinning too much. So he has a temper tantrum, a rage attack, and floods the Earth to a depth of 8.3 Kilometres with 2.3 billion cubic kilometres of water to murder every infant, baby, toddler, child, and woman/mother, as well as men in the entire world. He also kills every animal in the world except for samples for the Ark. What the feck did the poor bloody animals do to piss off God? Nothing, it was just unnecessary brutality and overkill.

God created a place called Hell. Hell is a place where you burn with the maximum pain and suffering but you don't burn up. You live there forever. This was to house forever all of those who failed to believe in and worship him. Hindus, and Buddists Gods are pussy-cats compared to the Judeo-Christian God.

God is blamed for every catastrophe (tornado, earthquake, volcano) as acts of God. God is responsible for everything that happens. That includes inoperable infant and child brain tumours, Tay-Sach's Disease, Lymphoma, Leukemia, Cancer, strokes, ALS, and he created all infectious organisms such as bacteria, viruses, prions, parasitic protozoa, parasitic worms.

I could go on but where the feck do you see a loving God in this mess? I can understand fearing this God. He is a bloody homicidal monster, sadistic, vengeful, unmerciful, capricious, given to homicidal tantrums of rage. Where is the love here?

Oh, says the robot Christian, He sent his only son to die for our sins. Crikey, he is loving because he had his only son killed? And the sacrifice didn''t work. There are no visible improvements in the human state since the mythical death and resurrection.

To make matters worse, this already mean and nasty god with uncontrollable rage attacks has developed a psychiatric disorder called "Multiple Personality Syndrome". This is true. They say he is one god with three personalities. MPS sufferers have a high risk of being murderers and abusers.

So, does God-fearing make more sense to you now? This is a god that one must fear if you believe in him. The very nastiness of God is the basis of the infamous Pascal's Wager.

Fiach

Amie

Hi Hinduwoman

1John 4:18 "There is no fear in love"

I know, I know...the damn contradictions seem endless...

beyelzu

Amie,

please dont take this the wrong way.

but when I read some of your posts, you seem so sincere and rational and honest, I just wonder to myself how the hell is she a xian?


I honestly mean that as a compliment. although you might not take it that way.

Christian

Amie,

1 John 4:18 in context is speaking about fear of judgement. A very specific kind of fear.

Verse 17 states this truth positively: "In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him."

The Christian will be confident on the day of judgment because s/he rests in God's complete love (i.e. Jesus has already taken the heat for you, so you have every reason to be confident at the final judgment.)

In typical Hebrew parallelism (a literary device used over and over again in 1 John) John states the same truth in a slightly different way. In this case he states it negatively.

Verse 18: "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

The setting is still the day of judgment, when all people stand before God and give account for their actions. The perfect love of Christ drives out any fear of punishment the Christian has. The text explicitly says that the fear we are talking here about is the fear of punishment.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world (all people) of judgment. (John 16:7-11) But fear of punishment from God is a characteristic of the unsaved, not a characteristic of the saved. (Rom 8:15)

The Christian is told to stand in awe of God, and that is sometimes refered to as "fear." Awe of God is perfectly natural and healthy ... He is infinitely greater than us in every good attribute. It is awe inspiring to encounter a Being such as that, no matter how much He loves us.

The nonbeliever is told to fear God quite literally, because He is the Avenger of the helpless (Ro 12:19) and will right all wrongs with the punishment He mets out on judgement day. An all powerful and all knowing Being makes for a very scary judge. There is good reason to be afraid for those who are not being made perfect in God's love.

When you consider a verse, remember to check out the context. Read the chapter the verse is found in, try to grasp the train of thought and see how the point being made fits into the discussion at hand.

It's easy to "demonstate" that any book more than a few pages long (even a scientific textbook) "contradicts itself." All you have to do is yank a quip here and a quip there out of context. That's how a newpaper reporter can quote you as saying the exact opposite of what you actually said in an interview. It doesn't prove anything though, other than the importance of considering context.

Hope that helps.

Respectfully,

Christian

Ronin

Having read the Christian sacred text numerous times in complete context, this is what appears ~

An being limited to time and space by numerous anthropocentric descriptions sires himself through a female, who has still not had sexual intercourse, with the pre-destined plan to sacrifice himself to himself in order to appease his own narcissistic wrath at his own perfect creations.

~ oh, and as trifling lagniappe, he offhandedly slipped in an immense and complex universe...you know, just to make it all look good.

Meantime, this 'loving one' continues to allow untold suffering in order to provoke sycophants into prostrating themselves before him for an eternity...freely chosen, of course.

Mysterious plan (tm) exposed.

You know the drill ~

excreationist

For Christians:

I think the story of God requesting Abraham to sacrifice Isaac has some relevance to this...

Was God testing Abraham to mainly see if he loved God? Or to mainly see if he feared God?

In Genesis 22:12b, an angel of God says "....Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."

It seems strange to me that the angel of God assumes that Abraham did it (in part at least) out of fear of God, rather than solely out of love for God. In verse two it says that Abraham loved Isaac so his sacrifice simply could have involved a greater love for God. After all, it says in a few places (see my previous post) to love God with ALL your heart, mind, soul and strength.

Amos

They are there to bait the [fundy] negative stand against which salvation must be found. So, Amie, this means that you are on the right track . . . even at times against your own faculty of reason that swings many towards unbelief.

Stephen T-B

Irishbrutha - this is just so AWFUL: “The fear that I have for God is that of a son who daily struggles with the conflict between his Father's rules and his own desire. When I break them, or stray from His path He will discipline me. And it is painful. I fear pain. This fear causes me to think twice before committing to a lifestyle of sin again.”
Is it really only fear that prevents you from “committing to a lifestyle of sin again”?
Without this fear, how sinful would you be?
As I see it, there are sins against god and sins (or offenses) against humankind.
Sins against god I don’t care about, god being a fiction, but offenses against humankind, which consist mainly of deliberate unkindnesses, are things I do care about and do try to avoid. That’s because I am part of a community which operates best when those in it are considerate of one anothers’ needs.
If something occurred tomorrow which convinced you that the whole god thing was a lie, would you immediately become an absolute shit?
I sincerely hope not.
“...God who cares for me will not let me go. Unlike the one who is not His child. These He will not discipline but in wrath will give them over to the consequences of their own flesh.”
I am constantly impressed by the harshness which Christians - and Muslims and Jews for that matter - embrace as part of their religious beliefs.
These are violent words you’ve used, and I detect in your use of them a certain relish, like you’re saying from your pinnacle high above the flood; “Drown, you Infidels. Drown!”
I accept that your certainty of god’s existence does not reflect a flaw or weakness in your personality; I don’t see it as blameworthy and I don’t think you should be punished for it.
Why then can you not reciprocate and accept that I absolutely lack that same certainty - not because I didn’t want it (I and many of those who post here have begged on our knees for it), and neither because there is a flaw or weakness in my personality for which I can be blamed and for which I must be punished?
Your Scriptures say that I must be, but surely you realise that they were written by people of little compassion in an age when stoning to death was quite an ordinary thing to do?

HaysooChreesto!

Simply put, what's NOT to fear about an angry, murdering, punishing, all powerful force that never shows itself?
And what's the payoff for not inducing It's wrath? Eternity spent in it's presence (thank you Jebus?).
If I believed that my eternal existence rested in the hands of a maniacal child, I'd be scared of being put in the cornfield too.

I don't believe that Xtians put a lot of thought into the "God Fearing" thing. I think it's more of a surface level show of humility. I really don't think it goes much deeper than that.

Demigawd

Well, some fundie sects of christianity do put alot of thought into "God-Fearing" aspect, and that's how they command subservience in their flocks. My experience is via Freewill Baptists in the South. Ain't nuthin like a good hellfire-n-damnation sermon to get the imagination flowing.