Galan

Hello everyone. I'm a newbie here. This is a subject I've been interested in for quite some time, and since there seems to be a number of knowledgeable posters here, I wanted to start a new thread with some basic questions and then see what everyone thinks...

As some of you may know, it's probable that the Jews came into contact with the ancient-Persian form of monotheism (now most commonly known as Zoroastrianism) during and after the exile (apprx. 597 BCE). A number of scholars have also noted changes in Jewish thinking around that time that appear to suggest an adaptation of some Zoroastrian concepts, theretofore not present. And of course we do know there are a number of biblical passages alluding to a strong bond during that period between Jews and Persians

Considering all the above, it seems almost certain that postexilic Jewish thinking was at least somewhat influenced through contact with Zoroastrianism. The question though is how much: Are the influences only minor and because of that easily disregarded? Or are they so profound that Judaism, as we know it, and therefore Christianity and even Islam as well, must admit to having been, at least in part, derived from Zoroastrianism? And if the latter is true, what does this mean for many of the claims and arguments often put forward by Christian fundamentalists?

I'll look forward to reading your thoughts... I can tell there are a number of smart people on here.

Greg2003

This is a great question, and also, the first question that I posted as a newbie here. A compelling argument can be made that Zoroastrianism is the main influence in forming Judaism as we know it today. Also, Zoroastrianism's influence on Christianity can be seen in the figure of Jesus who resembles Mithra and in gnosticism which was a syncratic precurser to christianity.

See http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/index.html for Magee's argument about how the Persian empire basically created judaism as a tool to keep the people of Palestine loyal and faithful to a temple centered kingdom run by priests who were all Persian agents who rewrote the scriptures to emphasize loyalty to the temple as opposed to any wicked king. It's a pretty good argument, if you ask me.

Galan

Greg2003,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I agree, this is a very important question. In fact, I think the issue of Zoroastrian influence may be one of the most important biblical questions there is. It seems to go to the very heart of things, and an awful lot could depend on it.

Thanks also for the link! I was already familiar with it, but it's been a while so I may want to take some time and give it another reading.

philechat

Modern Jews' belief in bodily resurrection is supposedly a Zoroastrain concept. Before then Yahweh rewarded and punished his people in THIS life, and all people went to a place named Shoel after death.

happyboy

heavens, NO! the bible is the inerrant word of God, and CANNOT be changed, not even by a heathen god like the god of zoroastrianism. what you are suggesting is blasphemy in the highest!

happyboy

Answerer

Influence, yes, derived, no. It takes a varieties of ideologies and religions myths and beliefs to remake Judaism and Christinity into the 'modern religions of Today'.

Greg2003

Agreed. But often this position is used as a sort of "don't go there" stifle to inquiry into controversial topics. It seems to me that because of C&J's dominant position in western culture academics restrain from making "bold" statements like Judaism is a product of Zoroastrianism. Rather, to water it down and say that there were some influences or borrowing language, etc. makes it more acceptable to christians and jews.

Better we should open our eyes to all possibilities. We know that ancient jewish cosmology and eschatology changed after the Babylonian and Persian control of Palestine. I think we can make more concrete statements about motive and mechanism of change in jewish religion due to this empirial dominance, than just to say that there may have been some borrowing of ideas.

Galan

Very well put! Though I'm no expert, from what little I do know saying that C&J have been 'influenced by' Zoroastrianism may not go far enough (we are talking about origins after all!), and even in those terms it is rarely mentioned or talked about in some circles.

By the way, I have another post somewhat related to this in General Religious Discussions that you may be interested in. The thread is called Authority and the Christian paradox
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=42919