agapeo

Starboy:
To which agapeo responded with no counter-response:
So I question whether this so-called honest question was “directed mostly to Christians”.
I happen to be a "Christian" and responded to the question, so what gives if it is "directed mostly to Christians".

Stephen T-B

GeoTheoi’s interpretation of Freethinker allows him, justifiably, to claim that he is more of a freethinker than the members of the his church, for whom, incidentally, the term would be regarded as one of abuse.
Strictly speaking, however, if you hold to a belief system you cannot by definition be a freethinker on the basis that your thinking is constrained by what it is you believe in.
Me? Perhaps I kid myself that I am a freethinker.
When, in my early 20s, god stopped being a noticeable part of my life, I did not declare myself to be an atheist, this being on the grounds that I might, the very next day, have a religious experience and know for sure there was a god.
I am now 59 and have drifted from agnosticism into atheism, and as such am probably less of a Freethinker than I was: whereas I did allow for the fact that there might be a god, I now rate the probability at zero. The god thing has become so absurd that if tomorrow I had a religious experience, I’d put it down to a psychotic episode.

agapeo

I found your background history very interesting. I'm a little confused however as to why you would consider yourself less of a freethinker as you made your move from agnostism to atheism. It seems to me that the opposite would be argued for by most participating on this topic. But whatever. But don't ya think that in order to move from theism to atheism indicated that you were a freethinker to begin with? IMO those that have done similar to you in moving from theism to atheism exercised their mind in doing so. But I also think that those who have been faced with the same questions that you may have been simply have come to a different conclusion and decided to remain a theist because the evidence for them was weighed in the balance and the scale was tipped on the side of the existence of God.

Also -- What would constitute a "religious experience" for you?

Starboy

Okay agapeo, I have looked through this thread and I have not found as you say a post where you have addressed this question:

If is suits you, you can stay on topic and answer the question or you can keep on whining.

Starboy

agapeo

Whining's fun. Seriously though Starboy how is it that you couldn't find what I quoted in my post to you above. Do I need to repost it? Perhaps it wasn't the answer you expected to the question asked. It was more a rebuttal to the idea that simply because Christians view the Bible as an authority on some matters doesn't indicate that they're not freethinkers. If you accept the writings of others as authorities on certain subjects then aren't you guilty of the same charge?

How 'bout cutting me some slack and quit with the whining accusation. It's getting boring.

Starboy

I guess it all depends on what you mean when you say you are a freethinker. If it means:

From Websters
Main Entry: free•think•er
Pronunciation: -'thi[ng]-k&r
Function: noun
Date: 1692
: one that forms opinions on the basis of reason independently of authority; especially : one who doubts or denies religious dogma

then I would say using the bible as any kind of authority would disqualify you as a freethinker. You could consider the bible as a source of information but it would have to be one of many points of view to consider as you formed your opinion. As you did this you would probably disqualify the bible as a source of reliable information. Is this what you have done? Or do you go by another definition?

Being a freethinker does not mean thinking freely. A freethinker is bound by the constraints of reason and logic. A more appropriate term for some of the liberal Christians on this thread might be free spirit. I think that does a better job of capturing the essence of what these people are.

To remain a freethinker as you become aware of new information then you would need to research and reconsider your opinion in the light of the new information. Perhaps you do this. I have done this to some extent, but it is difficult since there is a great deal of thought and information to consider, but after doing it to some extent it is hard for me to see how anyone could become or stay a Christian.

Also, other than claiming to be an a-thiest and that being associated with the term freethinker, I do not nor have I ever claimed to be a freethinker. I do the best I can. Life is short and there is so much to learn.

Starboy

Amos

Yes I understand galiel but it not very common to be a Freethinker. Further the term Freethinker is not comprehensible by free thinkers or there would be no argument at all.

A Freeman has free will. His will is not divided between his ego identity and his own self. He is in charge of his own destiny and in religious terms it can be said that he is in heaven. Naturally, the Freeman has to respond to the "call of nature" in the same way you and I do this and so the Freeman is motivated by inner drives only.


A Freethinker is not divided between his conscious (ego identity) and subconscious mind (self). He does not have to think and can do everything by intuition which now means that the memory of his soul (self) has become conscious knowledge. In religious terms he has ascended into the upper room of his subconscious mind and rules from there over heaven (subconscious mind) and earth (conscious mind) and therefore has Free Will.

A Gnostic knows and is a Freethinker and all Freethinkers are Gnostics in their own way. Each will know their own heaven and earth and each will be free in their own environment.

Starboy

Amos are you familiar with the gospel of Thomas?

Stephen T-B

Agapeo, responding to my last post, wrote: “I found your background history very interesting. I'm a little confused however as to why you would consider yourself less of a freethinker as you made your move from agnostism to atheism. It seems to me that the opposite would be argued for by most participating on this topic. But whatever. But don't ya think that in order to move from theism to atheism indicated that you were a freethinker to begin with? IMO those that have done similar to you in moving from theism to atheism exercised their mind in doing so. But I also think that those who have been faced with the same questions that you may have been simply have come to a different conclusion and decided to remain a theist because the evidence for them was weighed in the balance and the scale was tipped on the side of the existence of God.
Also -- What would constitute a "religious experience" for you?”

1. As an agnostic I had an open mind. As an atheist I don’t. Without an open mind I don’t see that it is possible to be a Freethinker because my universe now excludes the possibility of there being a god or gods.
2. At the moment - and it was a monent - I decided god wasn’t relevant, I was undoubtedly a Freethinker. And perhaps the fact that it was preceded by an earnest request that god give me a demonstration of his involvement in my life also indicates a readiness to consider the possibility that there would be no such demonstration. I think you are right: I was even then shifting from Believer to Freethinker.
3. If circumstances that morning had persuaded me to retain my belief, then I would have ceased immediately to be a Freethinker because I should not have been able to contemplate the non-existence of god.
4. A religous experience? I have read accounts of people’s religious experiences which have left them in no doubt whatsoever that god exists and is looking after them: they have had visions, principally, or been overcome by an overwhelming sense of god’s presence and love. I knew that if I had one, I could not remain an agnostic, and to have been an athiest would then have seemed rather peurile.

NOGO

You are making a basic error here. Freethinking has nothing to do with using your mind nor the ability to do so.

Freethinking has to do with giving yourself permission to think and explore issues which authority, the group, or society in general prohibit in one way or another.

When a theist asks a critical question concerning the Bible one the phrases that I have often heard is "Are you questioning the word of God?"

Right!, how can anyone question the word of God?
You simply do not have the permission to question.