JoyJuice

I have been reading bits and pieces on the net about the idea of the Exodus not really occuring, given the lack of evidence in Egypt and surrounding areas that the early Hebrews were indeed there as slaves?

Any views out there? and could some one point me in the direction of some solid research in regards to this claim or against it?

Thanks....

Peter Kirby

Try getting ahold of Out of the Desert? if you can.

best,
Peter Kirby

Volker.Doormann

The Exodus story is a parable. A symbol that deals with the descending of the soul of each individual 'down' ('down to Egypt') into a narrow body and it's exodus from this bondage in a fleshly body back home to the spiritual home of the soul. This symbol is linked to the event of full moon in the night on the 14th day of the Jewish lunar spring month. I think I have written here in this forum some detailed postings about this 'Passover' in the last month's. The meaning of the Hebrew word 'Mitzrayim' = 'narrow places' or 'bondage', which is used in the Hebrew Torah was changed to the word 'Egypt' with the mistaken consequence, that all people searching for historical traces of this parable.

Solid research? What is a solid research in the field of parables? I don't know. Alike as the separation of the soul of Jesus from his fleshly body also on Passover is still a parable with the same meaning as the Jewish Passover symbol (and not a historic event), where the flesh of the Egypt's as symbol of the fleshly body must die exact in the full moon night, the hole exodus story is also a parable of the soul of each human, that is searching for the escape from the bondage in this physical world. This theme is first dramatized in the Gilgamesh Epos in Sumer in ~2500 B.C.E. and occoured some times more in the Pentateuch, as all VIP's in the Pentateuch must go 'down to Egypt', which is the physical world, with their terrible laws and rituals.

Volker

mark9950

Basically what is a parable?

A parable is a story and what is a story?

To simplify things it is a LIE,unless it can be proven.

Most christians believe the exodus story as fact and how do we know that the whole bible is not a parable?

Vinnie

The Exodus story is what finally drove me from inerrancy thanks to some posts on another board by Jerry Pallant a few years ago!

Vinine

Marduk

"Basically what is a parable?

A parable is a story and what is a story?

To simplify things it is a LIE,unless it can be proven. "


No, they're more like Aesop's fables, a story told to make a point or teach a lesson. No one ever worries about whether or not there really was a 'boy who cried wolf' and what was his name?
It is simply to make a point. Which is what almost all of mythology is. If the event ever really happpened was not important or ever thought about at the time.

Tellurian

The Book of Exodus was written in Mesapotamia in the 6th Century BCE, about 1000 years after the events took place. The Book of Exodus story was twisted around. It was the Egyptian Moses that drove the Hebrew Pharoah out of Egypt.

During the 17th century BCE a people known as the Hyksos came from Canaan into the Nile delta area. They grew strong enough to take over Egypt. During the 16th century BCE the people of the city of Thebes revolted a few times against the Hyksos, until finally the king Ahmose was able to drive Theban forces to the Hyksos capital city of Avaris.

His brother, Thutmose, drove the Hyksos out of Avaris and eastward (possibly through the Reed Sea, which was located on the Mediterranean coast) into the desert of south Canaan. The Thebans destroyed the city of Avaris, but a new city was later built there and was called Pi Ramses.

So, the Moses brothers, Ahmose and Thutmose drove the Hebrew Pharoah out of Egypt and into the desert, but 1,000 years later the story got twisted around into the Exodus story found in the Bible.

mike_decock

Another poster on this forum pointed out this excellent post on the evcforum a few months ago.

-Mike...

Volker.Doormann

You do claim to be a former Christian and ask what basically is a parable? (?)

All spiritual 'things' are not to be shown. But nevertheless they can be recognized. A verbal communication about spirituality is only possible using words, which are only defined to physical objects in this world. While p.e. food is able to satisfy physical hunger of a physical body, water or bred cannot satisfy 'the hunger of a soul' to know truth. Taking this 'hunger' means to take the word as a parable, because it is parallel to a hunger of a physical body.

Matt 13: "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. received seed by the way side."

From this you can learn, that a text of the Torah or from the Gospels were only taken literally from people who are not able to grasp the spiritual meaning of parables. They never will understand ('hear') the hidden meaning of parables in the Torah or in the parables of Jesus.

If most Christians believe the exodus story as fact, then they never were interested in that, what Jesus has claimed p.e. in Matt. 13. But this is not a fault of Jesus.

Indeed, all stories in the Pentateuch, except the implementing of the 'mosaic laws' (taken from Hammurabi), are parables. And I have written here some detailed postings in the last month's to enlight these parables, of Passover, Noah, Jona, Esau, Lazarus, arising of the soul in the Gospel, Israel, the twelve 'tribes' of Israel, etc.

Jesus has spoken of (spiritual) knowledge, not of belief. To ignore this hint was a fundamental mistaken by the people, who have founded Christianity. They never have grasp that, what Jesus has hidden in his parables.

Volker

Volker.Doormann

The biography of Moses is taken from the biography of Sargon of Accad; there was never a historical Moses. The laws claimed by Moses in the Bible to be taken personally from God are preserved in the Louvre in Paris, France doormann.org/hammur.htm and were published 4000 years ago by the Semite leader Hammurabi. 'An eye for an eye' is a law that is published by Hammurabi some centuries prior as scholars do date 'Moses'. The symbol of the bull dramatized as golden idol is the shape of the ascending crescending moon, which was worshiped as the Jewish God 'Sin' (Mount Sin_ai). That, what is told in the Bible about the mosaic laws is a desinformation to hide the history worshipping planets and the moon as all Semites have worshiped the astrological meaning of the planets (Astarte = Venus = Ashera). Melchizedek is Jupiter ('King of rightenouess') as Jupiter is it until today in astrology. The twelve tribes of Israel plotted precisly in the four directions of the sky are the twelve astrological houses as they exist until today. All Hebrew names of the twelve sons of 'Israel' have a meaning of human mentality. The twelve 'tribes' are plotted in four groups of three tribes as it is used in astrology until today. About the meaning of the three 'houses' as the trinity of creation, presevation and distortion coming from the vedas of India, I have posted here something some days ago. There is nothing historic in the Torah. People have lost the ability to recognize spiritual symbols in that stories.

"THE LEGEND OF SARGON
[Ancient Near Eastern Texts 119]

Sargon, the mighty king, king of Agade, am I.
My mother was a changeling, my father I knew not.
The brother(s) of my father loved the hills.
My city is Azupiranu, which is situated on the banks of the Euphrates.
My changeling mother conceived me, in secret she bore me.
She set me in a basket of rushes, with bitumen she sealed My lid.
She cast me into the river which rose not (over) me,
The river bore me up and carried me to Akki, the drawer of water. Akki, the drawer of water lifted me out as he dipped his e[w]er.
Akki, the drawer of water, [took me] as his son (and) reared me.
Akki, the drawer of water, appointed me as his gardener,
While I was a gardener, Ishtar granted me (her) love,
And for four and [ ... ] years I exercised kingship,
The black-headed [people] I ruled, I gov[erned];
Mighty [moun]tains with chip-axes of bronze I conquered,
The upper ranges I scaled,
The lower ranges I [trav]ersed,
The sea [lan]ds three times I circled.
Dilmun my [hand] cap[tured],
[To] the great Der I [went up], I [. . . ],
[ . . . ] I altered and [. . .].
Whatever king may come up after me,
[. . .]
Let him r[ule, let him govern] the black-headed [peo]ple;
[Let him conquer] mighty [mountains] with chip-axe[s of bronze],
[Let] him scale the upper ranges,
[Let him traverse the lower ranges],
Let him circle the sea [lan]ds three times!
[Dilmun let his hand capture],
Let him go up [to] the great Der and [. . . ]!
[. . .] from my city, Aga[de ... ]
[. . . ] . . . [. . .].
(Remainder broken away.) "

Source: From: George A. Barton, Archaeology and The Bible, 3rd Ed., (Philadelphia: American Sunday-School Union, 1920), p. 310. Scanned by: J. S. Arkenberg, Dept. of History, Cal. State Fullerton. Prof. Arkenberg has modernized the text.

I have never seen an evidence that proves, that the biblical Moses is historic, as it can be shown for Sargon and Hammurabi.

Volker