echoes

This is copied and pasted from a post from another message board I post at:

This is going to be quite long, so bear with me. Today at my school we had an assembly. It was sponsored by FCA (Fellowship of Christian Athletes), of which I am a student leader. One of the girls in FCA, another leader, coordinated a few things so that a few Ohio State University football players would come in and speak about their experiences throughout the championship season, as well as their "source of strength," as it was advertised. This "source of strength" is their relationship with Jesus Christ. Anyway, we had kept this assembly (only FCA leaders knew about it beforehand) on the "d.l." to avoid rumors and such. So this morning we passed out little flyers to inform the students of the assembly at 1:30. It was originally supposed to be for the whole school, but our principal forgot to coordinate a certain detail, so it ended up that it would be during 7th period, but students could only come if their teachers allowed them to leave, which most did.

The big thing behind this (as you will later find out), is that it was an optional assembly, meaning if a student did not want to go, they simply stayed either back in their 7th period classroom or went to the cafeteria for a study hall. We had probably 2/3 rds of the school in attendance. Up until the start of the assembly at 2:00, no one knew for sure which Ohio State football players would show up. It was hard on the players, since apparently they have exams this week and with the snow, some couldn't miss their exams, or whatever. So anyway, Dustin Fox and another player show up (can't remember his name). Dustin starts off with just an introduction about the season and playing for the 2003 Championship team. Then he goes into the whole purpose of the assembly, the "source of strength" part. He just talked about how Jesus Christ is the reason for his success, and that was basically as "deep" as he went.

Then the next player got up there (sorry I can't remember his name), and he was much "deeper." He started talking about his football experiences, and then about how Jesus Christ has changed his life. He went into how you come to Christ, and offered the invitation for "Christ to come into your heart right now." Then he make the chance available by asking a prayer. (Through all of this our heads were bowed and our eyes were closed, as he asked). He was saying something about how if you want to accept him into your heart.....when BOOM! Our Physics teacher runs across the gym floor, and grabs the mic. out of the huge football players hand. This is where it gets crazy.

So the teacher (Mr. X {name deleted} is his name) goes off on a tangent, saying something along the lines of, "Now hold it right there. I don't believe this is right at all. This is a public school, and we should not be praying and having this stuff shoved down our throats. This is totally uncalled for and ridiculous. If my kid was up in the bleachers, I'd have him removed. This is a disgrace to public schools and to everyone who is not religious." WOW. No one knew what to do, we were all just kinda frozen, incuding the football player who had just been speaking no more than a few minutes ago. So somehow the football player got the mic back and he was like, "I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way, but wasn't this assembly optional?" Mr. X did not like that, and among the whole gym booing him out of the room, he stomped off and left the gym. Then the player said "Jesus Christ is the real deal for me." Huge applause, probably more as a repercussion from Mr. X basically being booed out of the room. It was crazy. It was more the timing than anything I think, I mean we were all in the middle of a prayer, silent, with our heads bowed and eyes closed, and he comes barging in like he owns the assembly.

So everyone was going nuts now. The football player wrapped it up by simply saying, "Here's what we believe, you may choose to accept Christ or not, no one is forcing anything upon you." Then questions concerning the season were asked, and I was called up in front of the school, with the 2 other senior FCA leaders, to talk a little bit about FCA-where and when we meet, what we do, just basic stuff like that. Soon after the assembly was dismissed. The talk about Mr. X was everywhere. No one could believe what just happened, and it came as such a shock for everyone in the gym at the time it happened. Everyone was bad-mouthing him, saying he had no right to intrude, which he didn't. I know it probably sounds like nothing from just reading this, but you really would have had to been there to get the "full effect" of what I'm saying. So we talked with some people and got autographs following. Like 5 minutes after it's over, Ben Hartsock, a football player (who made it late) come in. He's like the biggest star of all 3 players, I think (help me out here pepe and johnny), too bad he didn't get the chance to speak.

I just found it pretty cool that people stood up for the football players and God, amidst all that was happening with Mr. X. The whole gym was in total pandamonium(sp), but it all worked out in the end...kinda.

Since it was sponsored by FCA, and I'm an FCA Senior leader, I felt like I had some responsibilty to tell Mr. X what I think he did was wrong. So, I sat down this afternoon and wrote him a letter, which I will likely give to him tomorrow. Do you think a letter is appropriate? I definitely think so. Well, here it is if you'd like to read it. Tell me what you think, thanks.

*much thanks to brackis for some very helpful edits in the letter*


February 19, 2003

Mr. X,

I am writing to express my disappointment in the way you reacted to the assembly Wednesday, because I strongly believe your words and actions were unjustified. There are three main reasons for my basis, which I will discuss. First let me say that I respect your opinions concerning the matter, as we all are entitled to our own.
My first reason is the fact that the assembly was optional. Since it was optional, this means that students were not required to attend, for obvious reasons. Since students had the option to either attend the assembly or have a study hall in the commons, this naturally implies that if a student chooses to attend, he/she has to be respectful of the speaker(s). Furthermore, since the general topic being addressed in the assembly was noted beforehand, any disrespect or protest against what was being said is inappropriate, since the student had the choice to attend and hear what was being said. The fact that it was optional not only applied to students, but faculty as well. Not trying to sound rude by any means, but if you didn’t agree with what was being said, then you could simply have left, since you most obviously disagreed.
My second reason is a contradiction to what you said while briefly speaking. You claimed that “this shouldn’t be forced down our throats.” I can’t help but argue with this statement, since most obviously nothing was forced upon anyone in the gymnasium. The speaker said that if anyone in attendance would choose to participate in the prayer and the “semi-invitational” commitment, then they could do so. I don’t see how you can think that is “forcing it upon them,” since the choice rested solely upon each individual. The manner in which the speaker addressed the audience was not forced, but rather in such a way that was, for lack of better words, “if you want to, here is the chance.” If an individual did not want to accept the invitation, or had a difference of belief or opinion, then they simply could just sit back and listen respectfully, while not “accepting.” In no way is that forceful or dominating as you claimed it was.
My third reason is that the manner in which you spoke out was rude. The speaker was in the middle of his speech, in an assembly intended for him and the other players. Again, you are entitled to your own opinion, however to interrupt an assembly which has no direct relation to you, and furthermore goes against the etiquette of good manners, was not only unnecessary, but rude. Your opinion could have been kept silent and shared with the speaker or coordinator at a later time.
The freedom of any student to pray is protected by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. Therefore, the prayer that took place during the assembly is perfectly legal and just. You say you have a problem with it, yet how can you argue against what is already protected by the Constitution? Section 9524 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 states that just because a school doesn’t censor something, it does not necessarily mean that they endorse it. In application, just because Hayes did not censor what was being said in the assembly, it does not necessarily mean that they endorse the topic being discussed.
The players who came were not just disciples of a religion but athletes and role models who many people look up to, watch, and cheer for without prior knowledge or their race, religion or creed. These players took time out of their day to come share their personal beliefs, which should not be looked down upon because of the sacrifice of time.
As a physics teacher, you teach others to be open minded towards science and I think the same could be applied to this assembly and the promotion on all faiths in our school. I think in light of the situation one should be open minded and curious as to the different points of view and opinions. Conversely, I can see your point of view and why you spoke out the way you did. I would even agree in some aspects that what the speaker said “went too far,” or that it was “too sudden.” It could have been more general and less personal, I agree, but we all have to keep in mind that the man is only in college, he is not as old and as experienced with speaking, so I’m sure he was nervous and at times unsure of exactly what to say. Also the fact that no one knew for sure what he would say should be taken into consideration. There was not a specific or detailed agenda; therefore no one knew exactly how the event would turn out. But what he said has been said and I don’t think there is any logical reason to dwell on it. Mr. Peterson said that the assembly would be challenging, so no one can really say that what was said was totally a surprise. However, like I previously stated, it may have been slightly “too much.” Nothing could have been done to prevent it, however, since one, no one knew exactly what he would say, and two, the floor was left open for him to speak as he chose and saw fit.
On the whole however, I just don’t see the justification for your action and words spoken, taking the many variables, noted above, into consideration. I am sorry if I have offended you in any way, as that is certainly not my intention. Differences in opinion are a wonderful thing, since they bring about discussion.
In going to this assembly people were not only educated and told of religious experience but of real life achievement which can be modeled around wholesome virtues of perseverance, determination and strength which are not simply morals of Christianity, but characteristics schools, parents, and teachers would like to see in all teenagers, regardless of their religion. If you would like to further discuss this issue, I am more than willing to sit down with you sometime. Thanks for your time.

Respectfully,
************

I really don't know anything about this kind of thing, or the legality of it or anything. It took place in Ohio, in case you didn't guess by the presence of OSU football players.

It seems like an issue of despite it being optional, it was still endorsed by the school it seems, although maybe there isn't enough information to reach a firm conclusion. I think I remember seeing some kind of legal precedent for this kind of situation being mentioned on II before.

Is there any specific missing information that I should ask the author so as to clarify the situation enough that it can be evaluated from a church/state separation issue?

I hope someone here is knowledgeable enough in this area of the law so as to judge this situation.

*Note- "brackis" who is mentioned before the letter at the bottom, is the username of another forum member there.

Dark Jedi

Optional assembly during school hours for religious purposes has been ruled unconstitutional before.

I think the relevent ruling is:
Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe, 530 U.S. 290 (2000).

Someone correct me?

GaryP

I know release time is OK. But I think that involves leaving the school campus during school hours.

Whether legal or not, I always cringe when I hear these stories.
Even though billed as optional, there is always a good chance of many kids feeling as if they must go because their friends are going and there is pressure to belong.

Why in the world couldn't this have been held after school hours? Then, being as it would have competition with getting away from school for the day, it would truly be optional.

And being from Ohio and a big OSU fan, it definitely makes me feel out of the loop. I attended 2 games this year and after each there was a "prayer circle" on the field. Of the over 100 players OSU dresses for home games, I only saw about 6 or 7 who were wondering around outside the circle.

Does this mean that 95% of the players are Evangelical Christians? Why do football players seem to need this stuff so much?

echoes

Thanks for your replies.

I've found the following:

Collins v. Chandler Unified School District, 644 F.2d 759 (9th Cir. 1981) "School officials, employees or outsiders must not offer prayers at school assemblies. Even if attendance is voluntary, students may not deliver prayers at school assemblies either."

Santa Fe; Ingebretsen v. Jackson Public School Dist., 88 F.3d 274 (5th Cir. 1996). "Student-initiated prayer at school assemblies is unconstitutional even if the prayer is nonproselytizing and nonsectarian."

Do you think it would make sense to ask the author the name of his school and to then alert the ACLU?

Melkor

If it took place during normal school hours, it's pretty clearly inappropriate and treading on thin ice at best.

gravitybow

I'm addressing the tactics used, not the legal issues.
What rumors? He destroys his credibility right here. The purpose of the assembly is never truly revealed.

Yeah, and the "big thing" that got left out of "optional assembly" is "religious", which he says they had a right to all along even though they took pains to obscure it. So how does a student make an informed optional decision when information is withheld?

Can't be obvious if the true nature is hidden.

Then why did they have to engage in a subterfuge to pull it off?

What? No one knew for sure? The "message" was a secret to him, too? May have been slightly "too much"? Nothing could have been done to prevent it?
C'mon, who's he kidding? If Mr. X hadn't intervened, he'd be crowing in church next Sunday without apology for the wonderful work he was able to do for the Lord in public school. Why didn't he stand openly on such principle before the assembly ever took place?

trunks2k

I agree. There is absolutely no reason to cut into class time for something that asinine.

Vashtarah

I felt sick to my stomach reading about that assembly and how the student defends it. I can't quote court cases, but there's no way an assembly like that during school hours at a public school is constitutional. The question of whether or not is was optional seems to me irrelevant.

{identifying details of the teacher deleted at the request of the initiator of the post.}

scombrid

FCA is purely evangelical so anyone that invited them to speak and then stating that they didn't know what to expect is not being honest.

Bullshit, FCA encourages evangelism and conversion through peer pressure.

Whomever organized the assembly was hush hush about the nature of the assembly because they wanted to subvert the administration knowing that school sponsored proselytizing is off limits.

When publically called on their actions by a teacher they get to play martyr. I bet that this kid is misrepresenting the teacher's statements as well.

The event was not truly optional. It was held during normal class time thus disrupting school as students were forced to miss class for the assembly since the two options were study hall or soul harvesting.

Further, this reads like it's manufactured pro-school prayer propaganda. "BOOM, the physics teacher ran up..." reads like gross exageration or detail made up for effect. This story is probably going to turn into a "touched by an angel" type spam.

GaryP

Delaware is a suburb of Columbus (Ohio State is in Columbus.)