Thor Q. Mada

I saw Colin Powel's speach yesterday, and the bile came into my mouth.
I can only say that the evidence against OJ Simpson was far more convincing that the re-hashed stuff he presented to the world.
It was basically an insult to the worlds or "to prove what I have to prove".
Don't get me wrong, Saddam is a criminal and has to go, but this is too much.
On top of that , the US looks more and more like a straw man for Israel. Yes, call me an anti-semite, and see if I care. I in fact think that the way this is going, will ultimately work against Israel. Do they really think that they will live happily in the middle of a castrated Arab sea of people without a face or pride??
Think again.
And on this forum of infidels, has it ever come to your notice that Israel is waging a religious war, while the Palestinians are waging a secular territorial battle??
And about Iraq? .One can show evidence that one doesn't have something, but how do you show eveidence that you don't have something. This is almost a paradox!!
And herewith a few questions I would like to see the forum answer:


Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear
non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections? Answer: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other
nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United
Nations Security Council resolutions? Answer: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international
borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval
gunfire? Answer: Israel.

Q: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into
other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called
exporting terrorism)? Answer: Israel.

Q: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers
admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed? Answer:
Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who
have acknowledged executing prisoners of war? Answer: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to
allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses? Answer: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people
whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated? Answer: Israel.

Q: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations
diplomat assassinated? Answer: Israel.

Q: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the
assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister? Answer:
Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility
in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship, the USS Liberty, in international waters,
killing 34 and wounding 171 American sailors? Answer: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to
steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
Answer: Israel.

Q: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then
voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American
president grant Pollard a full pardon? Answer: Israel.

Q. What Middle East country allows American Jewish murderers to flee to its
country to escape punishment in the United States and refuses to extradite
them once in their custody? Answer: Israel

Q. What Middle East country preaches against hate yet builds a shrine and a
memorial for a murderer who killed 29 Palestinians while they prayed in
their Mosque. Answer: Israel

Q: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the
United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington
insiders? Answer: Israel.

Q. Which country in the Middle East deliberately targeted a U.N. Refugee
Camp in Qana, Lebanon and killed 103 innocent men, women, and especially
children? Answer: Israel

Q: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations
Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S.
vetoes? Answer: Israel.

Q. Which country in the Middle East receives more than one-third of all U.S.
aid yet is the 16th richest country in the world? Answer: Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East receives U.S. weapons for free and then
sells the technology to the Republic of China even at the objections of the
U.S.? Answer: Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East routinely insults the American people by
having its Prime Minister address the United States Congress and lecturing
them like children on why they have no right to reduce foreign aid? Answer:
Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East had its Prime Minister announce to his
staff not to worry about what the United States says because "We control
America?" Answer: Israel

Q. What country in the Middle East was cited by Amnesty International for
demolishing more than 4000 innocent Palestinian homes as a means of ethnic
cleansing. Answer: Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East has just recently used a weapon of mass
destruction, a one-ton smart bomb, dropping it in the center of a highly
populated area killing 15 civilians including 9 children? Answer: Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East routinely kills young Palestinian
children for no reason other than throwing stones at armored vehicles,
bulldozers, or tanks? Answer: Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East signed the Oslo Accords promising to
halt any new Jewish Settlement construction, but instead, has built more
than 270 new settlements since the signing? Answer: Israel

Q. Which country in the Middle East has assassinated more than 100 political
officials of its opponent in the last 2 years while killing hundreds of
civilians in the process, including dozens of children? Answer: Israel

Q.. Which country in the Middle East regularly violates the Geneva
Convention by imposing collective punishment on entire towns, villages, and
camps, for the acts of a few, and even goes as far as demolishing entire
villages while people are still in their homes? Answer: Israel

Q: What country in the Middle East is the United States threatening to
attack because of fear that it may be a threat to us and to our allies?
Answer: Iraq


A sick and tired and worried T.Q .Mada

Zar

You forgot:

Which country, according to United Press International, will now carry out assasinations in the United States?

Israel

United Press International Article

Thor Q. Mada

Sorry, in this bad case it is difficult to be complete. I hope there will be a court case in The Hague one day dealing with Israel.

Thor Q. Mada

Just read this article form a guy called Fred Reed. it is quite good, and while funny, more or less correct. Wish I could write like that.

Quote






I'm trying to understand American foreign policy. It's like oil-painting on a trampoline, but makes less sense. I'm not sure anybody could do it-not even if you took St. Augustine and Jimmy the Greek and Carl Friedrichs Gauss and wired them together in parallel.

It seems that we're going to blow up Iraq. Some folk will call it a war, but it'll be more like drowning a litter of puppies. Iraq is a primitive country and hasn't got a chance. That's convenient, and lots of fun, but it ain't war.

Now, understand: I'm patriotic, and believe in blowing up as many people as possible, wherever we can find them. But�why Iraq? It's mysterious. Sure, Hussein is a good, serviceable, every-day sort of monster and ought to be shot. So are about half the rulers in the world. Why this one? Bobby Mugabe needs it more, I reckon. Have we thought about Zaire?

Explain it to me. A ratpack of Saudis blew up New York, so we're going to wreck Iraq. We're going to do it because Hussein has Weapons of Mass Destruction, except that he doesn't, as far as anyone can tell. The more he doesn't have them, the more we want to blow him up because he does, or doesn't, or would if he did. Maybe.

I don't understand Weapons of Mass Destruction either. Actually, I do. They're a PR package, nice ribbon, pretty wrapping paper, but with nothing inside, to make it sound like we have a reason for attacking. Americans fortunately don't distinguish between a bumper sticker and a policy.

Now, if Iraq had nuclear weapons, blowing them up might be reasonable. But it doesn't. I don't care whether it has chemical weapons, and if it has smallpox, bombing won't help. So why do it? To grab the oil? Make the world safe for Israel? Historical codpiece for George? What's the scam, really?

It never stops. We're always bombing, invading, meddling, or embargoing. Nobody else does. Grenada, the Philippines, Panama, Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan twice, Laos, Lebanon twice, Iraq almost twice, Yemen, Angola, Kosovo, Cuba, Libya. We're maybe about to get into a war with North Korea. In fact we have troops there as a tripwire, to be sure we get involved. What could be a better plan?

Why? Why always us? Can't we just, you know, spend an occasional Saturday night at home? North Korea is South Korea's problem, not ours, and South Korea is an industrial power. If it wants to defend itself, fine. If it doesn't, I don't care. Is Japan upset about North Korea? Then let Japan do something about it. Why are we always the International Mother?

What possible reason did we have for bombing Yugoslavia? Last I heard, Yugoslavia was in Europe. Granted, I haven't looked for a while. Maybe it moved to Mississippi or the outskirts of Detroit. Continental drift is like that. But if it's in Europe, I say it's Europe's problem. Let them bomb Yugoslavia till it squeaks. Or not. Why do I care? It's time Europe learned to diaper itself.

For that matter, why do we have troops in Europe? I don't get it. NATO was supposed to fight the Soviet Union, I thought, which we don't have one of.

Could we stop meddling for even a week? We're in Colombia and Mexico and Peru and God knows where because these folk work in the drug trade, and we have A Drug Problem. We have a drug problem because Americans want drugs. It's not Colombia's problem. It's our problem. Why don't we leave Colombia the hell alone?

Think about it. Suppose a Colombian crept up to you in a raincoat, peering around furtively, and whispered, "Hey, Meester, wanna buy some really good polio virus? Great stuff. You'll never walk again. Iron lung, guaranteed. Five bucks."

You would probably indicate that you didn't really need any polio just now. The Colombian would run off and starve, or jump his visa and get a job in construction. You can't sell what people won't buy. It's an economic law. (Unless you're the federal government, which consists of the compulsory sale of unwanted services. But Colombia isn't.)

Americans love drugs. Middle-schoolers through assisted living, black, white, blue collar, guttural lawyers in pricey turtle-neck sweaters, funny-looking urbanites, suburbanites with the little bag in the closet, country boys cutting ditchweed, growing hydroponic, cooking that righteous crank.

It's one of the biggest businesses in America. We'll pay any price, risk jail, do anything for our drugs. The cartel is just a service industry. Half the country wants them, and the other half doesn't have to take them. Why do we expect other countries to let us bomb their peasants to solve our problem?

If we have to poke our nose everywhere, could we at least stop being the Moral Nanny? Somebody said (me, actually) that the Brits fight for empire, the French for la gloire de la France, the Russians to steal watches from the wounded, and the Americans for mommyish moral causes. Spare me.

It's embarrassing. Europe fought world wars to get the Germans off its back. We fought The War to End All War, and then to Make the World Safe for Democracy. The Soviet Union was the Evil Empire, and now Iraq and Korea are the Axes of Evil. (Whether this refers to malintentioned hatchets or indicates that the White House doesn't know that points can't be lines is unclear.) I don't want to be a Manichean baby-sitter.

Americans may need to get out more. I recently heard that ferret-like little man in the White House trying to give a speech about Iraq and how we're going to liberate Iraqis and it's for their own good and they ought to welcome us like rich relatives bringing free stuff. Any day now. Can't we put George back into his storage box in Roswell? Last time we were in Iraq, we killed 125,000 of their men, or some other wholesome number, wrecked the country, set up an embargo that starved 100,000 of their children to death, and established an aerial occupation of lots of their country.

But they're going to welcome us because George has good intentions. We're from the government, and we're here to help you�.

Why are we embargoing Cuba? When the Soviets wanted to put runways and missiles there, it made sense. Now we're making life miserable for perfectly decent Cubans because we don't like that tiresome gas bag with the beard. Yes, I know. We're rally doing it because Castro runs an oppressive communist tyranny. Like China, with whom we trade like starving encyclopedia salesmen. Consistency and churchy moralism go so well together.

I give up. It's beyond me.

Unquote
Please look at http://www.fredoneverything.net/index.html

Sometimes good, sometimes outrageous

moon

The whole thing with Powell was surreal. Everybody knew he was lying. If they had pictures of chemical weapons plants, why don't they go and search those plants? The links to al Queda have been dismissed even by U.S. imperialism's own intelligence services. Everybody who knows anything about Iraq knows that Iraq has no nuclear weapons program. And so on.

So, everybody knows Powell was lying, especially Powell. So, what was going on was basically a shakedown operation. Powell, the loyal lapdog, with his "back us or become irrelevant" bullying, was commanding the U.N. to obey U.S. orders. To really slap everyone in the face, they produce this ridiculous little sideshow, complete with pictures of buildings showing ... something, and faked intercepts of Iraqis bragging about how they are hiding weapons, pronouncements that "we have very good intelligence that al Quaeda and Saddam are in bed together," and so on. This was just to let everyone know that, yes, the U.S. is going to lie to you, and yes, you are going to have to sit there and pretend to take it seriously. Otherwise we will simply take what we want by force, and you can all fuck off.

It is now encumbent on everyone who identifies with the oppressed to fight U.S. imperialism. The time for compromising is over; the time for delusions about the neutrality of the U.N. and U.S. is over; the time for pretending that "we" are all in this together is over. The time has come to fight!

Kachana

I'm wondering, is there much firm evidence that indicates Powell was lying? I can see that he spoke in spite of the evidence on the Al-Quaeda Saddam link, but on the other areas. On the satellite photos of chemical plants etc., didn't the UN inspectors actually go there, but the Iraqis were tipped off and moved everything/bulldozed the soil?

And the intercepted phone calls; do you think they are faked because it's easy to do and you wouldn't put it past the administration, or are there more concrete reasons to believe it was faked?

leonarde

Partial post by Moon:I think, quite the contrary: every ambassador in the Security Council knew he (Powell) was telling
the truth.

Cheers!

Rusting Car Bumper

Thor,

and it seems bile came out of your mouth too.

Your argument is typically called a "Red Herring."

DC

Zar

Every ambassador...? How did you determine this? Are you sure you're not projecting your being "sold" on Powell's presentation onto them? Do you have a sixth sense about this?

This is not quite what I've been seeing so far in their reactions in the news, at least so far. That is, there was not this wave of "Aha! The Americans have hit a bullseye!" going on. There is still much of the same skeptical talk and rhetoric about continuing the inspections. And I thought Hans Blix refuted the claim Powell made that Iraq was moving anything. Perhaps you could point me to his retraction of that beleif?

Let the circus continue...maybe we'll get a better picture of this as time wears on...or not, since we keep going through this same exercise repeatedly.

Zar

On Red Herrings...

I'm not religious, but this bible passage has always held some sway with me:

Of course, few of the right wing Christians seem to remember this one. They like the nasty bits, much like Alex the droog did:

Now, maybe my post was yet another red herring. You decide. It is not one, at least, in terms of the OP, although it is for those chomping at the bit to take the log from their eye and bash Iraq with it.