notMichaelJackson

Have you visited the future? Then how can you prove that the event of the sun rising will occur tomorrow? Prove it will.

Phanes

Since this is in the "Existence of God" forum, I'm assuming you're setting up for some comparison to "proving" God. Bit of a bad idea though, since A) there are undoubtedly some physics equations describing the sun's and the earth's movement, which would show that the earth will continue to revolve around the sun (or the sun will "rise"), and B) even if there weren't, the sun has been "rising" for at least as long as recorded history. All in all a pretty strong inductive argument. Is it logically impossible the sun could fail to rise? Nope. But it's a pretty good bet all the same.

If I'm right that you want to continue with some comparison to God, you should probably stop now. I think I can safely say that most atheists would be happy to see any real evidence for God; it needn't be mathematical proof. But unlike the movement of the earth and sun, God has not been credited by over 99% of humans in the history of mankind, and (more importantly) he cannot be objectively tested for (at least not that I've heard).

Koyaanisqatsi

Not to mention the fact that there is no need to prove the sun will rise. No one (that I have ever met) has made the positive claim, "The sun will rise tomorrow," and, more importantly, until you, no one has seriously challenged that claim by requesting evidence to support it.

Even if one could not provide any evidence, however, what difference would it make to the question of the existence of a god or gods? Because one claim can't be supported, an entirely different claim doesn't therefore need to be supported?

There are no half-lifes on burdens of proof, nor are there any links between one burden and another.

Whoever makes the positive claim initiates a burden of proof. Whether there exist other positive claims and other burdens of proof has no bearing on any one particular claim and its subsequent burden of proof.

In other words, if I can't adequately prove (i.e., provide compelling evidence for, let's get that straight) that the sun will rise tomorrow, that doesn't ipso facto mean that a god exists or that the burden of proof all theists continue to carry is somehow alleviated, or that the standards of proof dissappear.

Asha'man

Absolute proof only exists in the minds of mathematicians and theists, within invented worlds of logic and fantasy.

In the real world, there are no proofs because there are no facts.

Everything we know is somewhat tentative. It is based on our ability to observe and reason, and humans are not perfect at either. Science accepts this reality, even lives by it. A scientific fact is always considered provisionally true, accepted until disproven by more observations.

However, within the realm of near proof and almost facts: The sun will rise tomorrow because it always has in the past, and there is no reason to speculate that the next day will be any different that the last.

Alternately, I could use a linguistic proof:
If you define a day as sunrise to sunrise (as weathermen do), then tomorrow only arrives when the next sunrise gets here. Therefore, if tomorrow ever gets here, then the sun has clearly risen.

Darth Dane

"In the real world, there are no proofs because there are no facts."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Everything boils down to belief. Pure and simple.

If you don't believe this, you believe that!




DD - Believing Spliff

Viking

Of course, the sun doesn't "rise," the earth rotates. Either the sun has to disappear or the earth has to stop rotating before tomorrow morning (there are other possibilities as well.) As the above posters indicated, proof is not the appropriate word to indicate there is a 99.999999...% probablility that the sun will "rise" tomorrow. On the other hand, there is 0.0% evidence of a supernatural being that directs the course of human or any other events (the originator of this thread is either 8 years old or that is where this argument is going.)

Now, as time goes on, there will come a day when the likelihood that the sun will not "rise" tomorrow morning will become highly probable, but it is a long way off, grasshopper, and I hope you are not losing sleep over it.

Shadowy Man

Well, it's very easy to prove that the Sun will rise tomorrow. For thousands and thousands of years people have watched the sky and the motions of the objects in it - stars, planets, asteroids, comets, the Moon, and the Sun. We have developed an extremely accurate model of predicting these motions, even to the point where we can launch a rocket with a space probe on it and it can maneuver around the solar system and visit planets and other objects. This model has been so successful that I am fully convinced that it suffices as an accurate representation of what is really going on. It has been proven to me beyond any shred of reasonable, rational doubt.

I don't know what kind of definition of the word "proof" you are using, but if you want to live with your head in the sand go right ahead, but remember that the same principles that allow you to be typing away at your computer and me reading your message are the same basic principles that have proven that the Sun will rise tomorrow.

tk

I just proved that it's possible for me to make the sun not rise tomorrow. To do so, I start from a point on Earth which is on the opposite side from the sun, then for 24 hours, I travel along the latitude I'm on, constantly maintaining my opposite position with respect to the sun. Then from my point of view, the sun has not risen for 24 hours.

(Maybe I should illustrate this with some diagrams...)

Clutch

Or just move to the Faroe Islands in December.

Shadowy Man

It'd be easier just to move north of the Arctic circle in the summer.