keyser_soze

Pot and kettle sitting in a tree..K.I.S.....well, you get the point. She's apparently already been on your side of the fence, as have most atheists(why do you think we become atheists after all). You are not seeing HER side however. Your god is, to borrow a line, "an absentee landlord". And if the bible is a good representation of him.....a bastard to boot.

wade-w

This is getting out of hand. One more personal attack, and I will close this thread.

Justin70

Seems to me that all Debbie is doing is asking a sincere question and Amie can think of nothing constructive to say other than to personally attack her.

I'd really like to see some direct answers.

Justin

HelenM

I don't think you asked 'the wrong way', no.

I don't know why you didn't get an answer, Debbie.

I've heard my pastor talk about being called from the hospital by two young parents whose baby had just died, 12 days after birth and asked to come there. (The baby was premature and evidently turned out to be too young to survive) When they asked him 'why did God let this happen?' he said he didn't know. I think that's the best answer Christians can give, sometimes.

I don't think it's fair to look for reasons in you or in how you prayed, that would give God an 'excuse' for not answering, although that's how some Christians resolve unanswered prayer. I think it's absolutely wrong to blame people for something simply to preserve one's own theology intact.

Anyway, I'm so sorry you went through that, Debbie. I can't imagine I know a couple of people who were sexually abused as children by family members and I have seen in them the depth of hurt that runs through their life as a result. And these are people who have been through counseling, who have actively worked on dealing with the legacy of it.

They happen to be Christians, which tells me that some people find ways of dealing with very difficult questions about God and unanswered prayer which doesn't take away their belief in God. On the other hand I expect there are many people on this board whose deconversion happened partly because of unanswered prayer.

Helen

MrDarwin

Amie, do you think Lesley Ann Downey was praying "Santa Claus prayers"? Do you think Jesus answered her prayers?

I have yet to get a straight answer from any Christian on this one.

Hawkingfan

So it would be best to pray, "Please kill my baby and make him suffer according to your will."
So it would be best to pray, "Yeah! I delight SO much in the death of my baby."
I think Donald Morgan once said it best, "If prayer can change the mind of god, then he is not sovereign. If prayer cannot change the mind of god, then it is superfluous."

openeyes

But in their opinion they were followers of Christ. When you enter the realm of "faith" who can tell who's got the proper view? Although many interpretations of christianity are more benign, unfortunately we have people who use religion to impose questionable views on others, if not to downright justify their immoral acts.

If "Christians" and other religious folk would merely use prayer as a personal positive adjunct to their daily lives because they found it helpful, that would be one thing. But of course, most don't stop there but implore us all to pray as they pray, and if we don't, a judgment is made that we are obviously of questionable character. Some faithful just block out the possibility of those who don't rely on prayer as they do, because they have so interwoven it into their lives they can consider no other way. Others seem to know that there perhaps is good reason for this questioning, and have insecurites because this notion of "faith in god" has so many flavors but turn this discomfort toward nonbelievers instead of those who interprete "god/Jesus" differently than they.

brighid

Debbie T,

I am sorry to hear about the horrors of your childhood, and as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I also feel your pain even if that abuse was not at the hands of my father. I am also sorry that like so many others there was no one to save, or protect you from your real life monster. If it helps I send you a big cyber {{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}

I am perplexed by those people who have responded from the Christian perspective (except Helen) with the assumption that unanswered prayers must be the result of selfishness of the like. Aren’t many prayers, by design selfish? Isn’t it selfish to want God on your side in war, or to desire God to bring you the love of your life, or for your child to avoid painful circumstances (because a loving parent also is pained by a child’s misfortune, illness, etc.) and even the prayer for peace is at some level selfish because it is, in part based on the desire to derive a modicum of comfort from the good fortune of others? I can see why a God might not grant a petitioner a wish for a new Barbie doll, pony, or some other material item. But I cannot understand how a God, allegedly the ultimate and loving, perfect parent would chose not to answer the prayers of a starving child, or one whose father is not only harming his child’s body through molestation, but also her precious mind and for those who believe in one … her soul. Perhaps this God has a purpose to this torture, but wouldn’t it be only decent to whisper to this child that the pain will end, and if she endures that His greater purpose will be revealed, she is loved by Him, and he has not forsaken her? Even then, to allow another human being to physically, mentally and spiritually harm, or destroy one of your beloved children is beyond my human understanding, limited or not. As a parent the well being of my child is something I closely guard, and although I know that sometimes I must allow my son to fall down and bear a lesson on his own, I could never knowingly (an omniscience is ALL knowing) allow another to harm my child. And if my child pleaded with me to make the pain and abuse stop, and I either put up a barrier, or simply ignored it … oh my goodness … how could a loving parent do that? It is simply unconscionable.

Furthermore, if man is incapable of knowing the will of this God isn’t is at best presumptuous, and at worst utterly callous and arrogant to pretend to know why God might not have answered a prayer of anyone? Especially at the same time stating that others cannot know what is in another’s mind or heart and thereby is not capable of judging one’s intent? I think Helen’s answer is best from the Christian perspective by stating that she (nor anyone else) cannot know the answer to Debbie’s question.

It adds insult to injury to be told that somehow a prayer from relief of unimaginable horrors could somehow be done improperly, and without adequate earnest and sincerity. How can one possibly make that judgment if one was not there to witness the sincerity and veracity of a prayer, or know the intent of another’s heart? I certainly cannot conceive of a direr, or sincerer prayer then that of a child crying to God Almighty to be sparred another night of torture at the hands of her earthly father. Having prayed a similar prayer as a child I can speak of the heartfelt and sincere plea of my own prayers to the same God. I doubt any other child suffering similar circumstances prayed with any less earnest.

If any of you can honestly look into the eyes of an abused child as her eyes run over with tears of terror, grief and pain and say to that child, “Sweetie, you must not have prayed hard enough to make God stop Daddy from molesting you so I am afraid it will continue until you pray with every ounce of your human heart and soul” then you should not speak (or type) the same words to an adult survivor of that same (or similar) atrocity.

Brighid

7thangel

Hey,why do you think their prayers were not answered?

God answer all our prayers. Don't just expect what you want. That is why we pray, we do not command God to do as we wish. If we knew the respond, we would have been thanking instead of praying.

Is that hard to understand?

In any case, in all these hardships and trauma that we suffer, even Christ himself died because of our sins, there is a great future ahead of us believers - eternal life and peace.

lpetrich

7thangel:
God answer all our prayers. Don't just expect what you want. That is why we pray, we do not command God to do as we wish. If we knew the respond, we would have been thanking instead of praying.

Anything whatsoever can be explained in this way, because prayers seemingly going unanswered could be the result of god thinking "I don't do things for people who bug me all the time".

In any case, in all these hardships and trauma that we suffer, even Christ himself died because of our sins, there is a great future ahead of us believers - eternal life and peace.

Meaning that Heaven would not be worth living in -- Heaven is supposedly free from hardships and trauma.