Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Celsus · 03-27-2003, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Mr Joseph Mok, 50, the father of Miss Esther Mok, one of the three women who brought severe acute respiratory syndrome (Sars) to Singapore died on Tuesday night.

Last night, Mr Simon Loh, a 39-year-old pastor who had gone to the hospital to pray for Miss Mok at her aunt's request, also died.

I'm not dancing on anyone's grave--I'm sick of needless deaths just because people need to practice their ancient superstitions. When will they learn?

Joel

keyser_soze · 03-27-2003, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Celsus
Straits Times article:

I'm not dancing on anyone's grave--I'm sick of needless deaths just because people need to practice their ancient superstitions. When will they learn?

Joel

Damn pagan! Just goes to show that you have no concept of what's going on. Obviously, god RELEASED them from all that pesky pain, and the labors of living...and breathing...and their hearts beating....and so forth. So he answered their prayers. So therefore...PRAYER WORKED!

keyser_soze · 03-27-2003, 04:18 AM

You cannot understand, until you believe! And you cannot believe until you put your silly human feelings and wishes to understand aside and just accept. See how easy it is? You can't have evidence until you believe. When you believe, you get all the evidence you need!

Queen of Swords · 03-27-2003, 04:18 AM

There, there, Joel, these people are all on clouds right now, playing with the little children whom God drowned during the flood.

keyser_soze · 03-27-2003, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QueenofSwords
There, there, Joel, these people are all on clouds right now, playing with the little children whom God drowned during the flood.

WATERBABIES!!!!!!!

Babylon Sister · 03-27-2003, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by keyser_soze
WATERBABIES!!!!!!!

I never made the connection before, but this must be the origin of the the Northern Piaute legend about evil little children they call Waterbabies who hang around certain springs and rivers and love to do harm to passersby.

On second thought....never mind.

Daisy · 03-27-2003, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Celsus
Straits Times article:

I'm not dancing on anyone's grave--I'm sick of needless deaths just because people need to practice their ancient superstitions. When will they learn?

Joel

Her father praying for her did not cause her "needless death" - she was in the hospital, after all, presumably getting actual medical treatment.

It's also possible that he was praying for her immortal soul, not for her earthly body. That seems proper to me (should anybody ask). It's odd that Christians should pray to prolong their life on earth when it's in death that their life with their Heavenly Father begins. Or do they have to wait for Judgement Day?

The Christians who refuse medical treatment and depend on God's will are the most consistent. Wouldn't that free up medical services for the rest of us who only have this life and so need to hold on to it for as long as it seems worthwhile?

[edited to add]
Oops! I see I didn't understand the original article correctly...

The woman who was prayed for is still alive, so far, but the men who prayed for her died...well, God works in mysterious ways! Were they rewarded or punished for their piety? I'm not sure, but I'm thinking twice before I pray for anyone.

spurly · 03-27-2003, 05:14 PM

Prayer. One of the most misunderstood things in Christendom. The whole point of prayer is not to get stuff, be they blessings or healings or whatever. The whole point of prayer is to build our relationship with our creator.

God can not answer every prayer yes. His goal is to get us through this sin filled world and home with him in heaven. So sometimes prayers for healing get a no answer. Even Jesus received a no answer to prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane. Does this mean prayer failed the Son of God. No. It brought him into a deeper relationship with the Father and brought about peace in difficult times.

God will answer some prayers yes. But many prayers he will not. We don't live in a perfect world. Eventually, in eternity, we will.

Prayer is not a Santa Claus list. People who think so are desperately mistaken.

They usually claim the verse "ask whatever you wish and it will be given to you". But they forget about other verses which teach that we must ask in Jesus' name - i.e. we must ask for things that are in line with his character and his will.

Many people also bring up Psalm 34 "he will give you the desires of your heart", without focusing on the first part "Delight yourself in the Lord". If we are truly making the Lord our delight then we will only want things that line up with his will.

Sorry for the rant. I just get upset with people who treat prayer like a Santa Claus list. (As a Christian the Prayer of Jabez book scares me).

Kevin

Biff the unclean · 03-27-2003, 05:33 PM

Matthew 26:39
And (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me...

No way Jos�! Wadda ya think I am, Santa?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Funny how, God doing whatever he damn well pleases looks ever so much like random events with no God at all lending a hand.

trillian · 03-27-2003, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spurly

God can not answer every prayer yes. So sometimes prayers for healing get a no answer. God will answer some prayers yes. But many prayers he will not. We don't live in a perfect world.
Kevin

A "no" answer is still an answer. So he does answer all prayers, just not with what the prayer would have liked.
So, we can conclude that he heard it, and "chose" to do nothing as part of his plan, and that was his answer.

What if you took all of the hours of prayer and had them used instead for medical research, wouldn't that be a better use of time? All the hours people pray are hours that they aren't helping the poor, educating their children, solving crimes, or converting infidels to save them from eternal damnation. Sounds selfish to me to pray when there's so much else to do!!

God doesn't change his plan so why pray at all for other people? Or does God sometimes change his mind?

03-27-2003, 04:18 AM	#4
Queen of Swords Contributor Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Canada. Finally. Posts: 10,155	Re: Prayer fails (again) There, there, Joel, these people are all on clouds right now, playing with the little children whom God drowned during the flood.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-27-2003, 04:18 AM	#3
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	You cannot understand, until you believe! And you cannot believe until you put your silly human feelings and wishes to understand aside and just accept. See how easy it is? You can't have evidence until you believe. When you believe, you get all the evidence you need!

03-27-2003, 05:14 PM	#8
spurly Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 710	Prayer. One of the most misunderstood things in Christendom. The whole point of prayer is not to get stuff, be they blessings or healings or whatever. The whole point of prayer is to build our relationship with our creator. God can not answer every prayer yes. His goal is to get us through this sin filled world and home with him in heaven. So sometimes prayers for healing get a no answer. Even Jesus received a no answer to prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane. Does this mean prayer failed the Son of God. No. It brought him into a deeper relationship with the Father and brought about peace in difficult times. God will answer some prayers yes. But many prayers he will not. We don't live in a perfect world. Eventually, in eternity, we will. Prayer is not a Santa Claus list. People who think so are desperately mistaken. They usually claim the verse "ask whatever you wish and it will be given to you". But they forget about other verses which teach that we must ask in Jesus' name - i.e. we must ask for things that are in line with his character and his will. Many people also bring up Psalm 34 "he will give you the desires of your heart", without focusing on the first part "Delight yourself in the Lord". If we are truly making the Lord our delight then we will only want things that line up with his will. Sorry for the rant. I just get upset with people who treat prayer like a Santa Claus list. (As a Christian the Prayer of Jabez book scares me). Kevin

03-27-2003, 05:33 PM	#9
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Matthew 26:39 And (Jesus) went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me... No way Jos�! Wadda ya think I am, Santa? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: Funny how, God doing whatever he damn well pleases looks ever so much like random events with no God at all lending a hand.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.