Freethought & Rationalism Archive

pz · 05-19-2003, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gcameron
The science in Star Trek is laughable, but the science in most TV/movie "science fiction" is equally so. I just compartmentalize. Star Trek got me at an early age and by the time I realized how bad the science was, I was already hooked. I'm not even reading Trek as "science" most of the time -- I read it as drama/action etc. -- so the cognitive dissonance only occasionally kicks in. If I had encountered it as an adult (which of course Sagan did), and moreso if science had been my profession, I suppose I might have had more resistance to it.

Yes, and I actually find the hammy old original trek episodes much more tolerable than the newer versions, because the stories most often were not about "science".

All too often, though, when I watched the Next Generation or whatever, it seemed that there would be some geeky problem set up at the beginning -- weird rays turned some of the crew invisible, or a virus was making them devolve -- the middle was about characters freaking out over the problem (usually in predictable, stereotypic ways), and the end was about Geordi or the doctor or someone pulling a deus ex machina out of his or her butt and resolving the problem with some pseudo-technical mumbo-jumbo. The "scientific" problem was the structure around which the entire episode revolved, making it an inescapable obstacle to suspension of disbelief.

Duvenoy · 05-19-2003, 02:11 PM

Don't mess with The Trek! I love The Trek, dippy science and all. I've been a Trekkie from the day one, as I suspect many here have, but won't admit it. How else would y'all know so much about it?

But, I fear that the axe lost it's edge when Rodenberry died. This latest incarnation hasn't done much for me -- it's been a while since I've watched it due to no TV..

It's a fantasy, folks. In fantasies, any stupid thing can be 'real'. Me, I just kick back and enjoy the story, and let the 'facts' take care of themselves. Alice in Wonderland with tricorders and phasers!

And the same holds true for the Friends show, or any other. Let's face it; it probably all blew completly by something like 90% of those who watched it (I didn't. As mentioned, the toob crapped out a year or so back, and I've not bothered to replace it).

On the other hand, it's a sad commentary on our society that such nonsense blows by such a large percentage.

doov

KC · 05-19-2003, 02:47 PM

I would love to have seen a Friends episode where the paleontologist character actually finds his manhood when confronted by creationist students in class.

Ah, fantasy.

KC

Ape31 · 05-20-2003, 04:09 AM

You guys might want to check out the exchange between Ross and Phoebe in the episode The One Where Heckles Dies

r.

Calzaer · 05-20-2003, 09:06 AM

Quote:

X-Files has bad science? So what? Someone fires a gun 10 times that only shoots 6 on a clip? So what? The upload time for the file was completely unrealistic compared to its huge size? So what?

People say that, but what would you say about this show:

It's about football. It revolves around the team, the players, the coach, everything about football.

But they keep referring to touchdowns as "home runs" and field goals as "free throws".

"So what"?

*****

Anyway... about Star Trek...

I'm the Chief Engineer in a Roleplay-by-email Star Trek game (sim, whatever). I say things like "The sensor inhibitor subnodes overloaded, sending too much power into the electro-neutron subgrid" to explain explosions and such. It's a lot of fun.

Sometimes, however, I've been tempted to post the following:

"The [insert tech] [insert tech] is being [insert techy-verb]! We've got to [techy-verb] the [tech] and [techy-verb] the [tech] to the Main Deflector!"

There are two great things about Star Trek roleplay: (1) You don't have to hide the fact you don't know much hard science, and (2) You can have a small plot hole and get away with it, since nearly every episode has very large plot holes.

<plug=gratuituous> Anyone interested can check out the Independence Fleet home page. Warning: It's an Angelfire site, so set your browser to reject pop-ups before you click it.

I'm the Chief Engineer on Deep Space 15, and the Chief Tactical Officer on Starbase 10.

</plug>

scombrid · 05-20-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Piscez
Someone fires a gun 10 times that only shoots 6 on a clip?

Hehe, I always enjoy when someone rattles off 5 or 6 shots with a double barrel shotgun. That's just freakin lazy on the producer's part.

Nic Tamzek · 05-20-2003, 02:32 PM

I may get flack for this, but I think that one of more entertaining and scientifically respectable scifi shows around is Stargate. For a long time I never even watched the show because it looked so corny and I thought that the movie was derivative (a mixture of Indiana Jones and star wars). But then for some reason I watched it and it wasn't so bad.

Among the good points:

Since the main characters are modern-day Air Force people, all the science that they talk about has to be reasonably close to modern-day science. They freely admit that they don't understand exactly how most of the advanced technology in the show works.

They must have a science person or consultant or someone on the show, because they actually get things like carbon dating, RNA inhibitors, etc. more or less right.

Unlight most scifi shows, religion is not completely avoided, rather a major theme appears to be overthrowing false gods.

Of course, the show can be critiqued on various grounds, e.g. "everyone speaks english", but everyone has to make a few concessions.

Plus, every show Richard Dean Anderson does what people above were saying Picard should do, the "I don't know what the hell you're talking about" routine.

Nic Tamzek · 05-20-2003, 03:11 PM

Just a coupla quotes from various quotes pages (Jack O'Neill is Richard Dean Anderson):

Quote:

Daniel ~ So, this Iris is going to hold right?
Sam ~ Pure titanium, less then three micrometers from the event horizon. It won't even allow matter to fully reintergrate.
Jack ~ So this Iris is going to hold right?
Sam ~ If it doesn't, the fail-safe device will detonate, this whole mountain will vaporize and there'll be nothing to worry about.
Jack ~ Ah, good. I feel much better.
(The Enemy Within)

Quote:

Sam ~ I can't think of an 'or' at the moment sir.
Daniel ~ No 'or'?
Jack ~ There's an 'or'.
Daniel ~ There's an 'or'?
Sam ~ You can' t just will something to happen because you want it to be a certain way.
Jack ~ Captain, where there's a will, there's an 'or'.

Quote:

Daniel ~ So, what's the plan?
Jack ~ Find the Stargate.
Daniel ~ Find the Stargate? That's the plan?
Jack ~ Elegant in it's simplicity, don't you think?

Quote:

"geek"
"...nerd" -- 2 scientists, 'The Other Guys'

"We might as well be wearing red shirts."
"I don't understand that." -- 2 scientists, 'The Other Guys'

Quote:

Teal'c: "Thor was correct. We are going to die."
O'Neill: "Oh, c'mon, Teal'c, lighten up. We've been in these situations before."
Carter: "No, Sir, we haven't."
O'Neill: "We haven't?"

JACK: "Hey, you guys are just being too negative !"
JACOB: "We're not going to make it!" and Jack smacks him on the arm.

JACK: "Excuse me ! I distinctly remember someone saying 'we're not gonna make it'. I think we made it."
JACOB: "I'm sorry, I overreacted. At the time, it looked very much like we weren't going to make it."
JACK: "Yes, well, maybe next time you'll just wait and see."
JACOB: "And blow the last chance I might ever have at being right?" and Jacob slightly shakes his head and walks off.
JACK, a puzzled expression on his face: "What ! ?"

Quote:

Carter: "Well, look at these readings, Sir. These are leptons."
O'Neill: "Get out."
Carter: "Well, that means something inside this pyramid is slowing down neutrinos. Normally neutrinos pass right through ordinary matter, no matter how dense. I mean, something like five hundred million billion just passed through you."
O'Neill: "No matter how dense."

[...]

Fraiser: "Colonel, I can only guess at the effect this type of radiation may have on the human body. I recommend limited exposure--ten, fifteen minutes at most."
Daniel: "Wait a minute, that's...that's not enough time. I mean, there has to be some sort of radiation suit or...."
O'Neill: "Hey, if you'd been listening you'd know that Nintendos pass through everything."

Quote:

O'Neill: "Teal'c? How fast will this unit fly?"
Teal'c: "I believe it is capable of traveling twice the speed of light."
O'Neill: "Nice. Home for dinner."
Carter: "Sir, if you're thinking of stealing the ship and flying it back to Earth, I mean, even at 372,000 miles per second it would still take us at least ten years to get that far."
O'Neill: "Shoulda let the dog out."

O'Neill: "So you work for Sokar?"
Arris: "No."
O'Neill: "Self employed, then. Independent contractor. Rogue warrior?"
Arris: "I give the Goa'uld what they want and they give back to me what I want in return."
Carter: "How do you keep from getting killed?"
Arris: "It takes talents."
O'Neill: "So...how do you keep from getting killed?"

Arris: "And you, O'Neill, you're considered, well, you're a pain in the mikta."
O'Neill: "Neck?"
Teal'c: "No."

Arris: "My word is good on over 2,000 planets."
O'Neill: "There are billions."

O'Neill: "So, what exactly didja have in mind regarding the capture of this Goa'uld? What was his name? Kevlar?"
Arris: "Keltar. Well, you two are going to surrender to him."
O'Neill: "That's a bad plan."

Arris: "Look, do you want to know how I became the greatest bounty hunter in the galaxy?"
O'Neill: "More than life itself."

Arris: "All you've got to do is get close enough to shoot him with a zat'nik'atel."
O'Neill: "Okay, found a flaw in your plan."
Arris: "What's that?"
O'Neill: "Well, we're exactly one zat gun short of actually having a zat gun."
Arris: "Zat gun."
O'Neill: "Drop the 'nik'atel.'"
Arris: "I guess it does save a bit of effort." He tosses Jack a gun.
O'Neill: "You're giving me a working zat gun."
Arris: "Well, if it didn't work, it wouldn't do you any good. I'm trusting you." O'Neill shrugs, then shoots Arris.
Daniel: "Jack, he said he disabled the DHD and Sam said we couldn't fly that ship all the way home."
O'Neill: "So we'll fly it to a closer planet with a Stargate."
Daniel: "Good thinking."
O'Neill: "It happens."

Daniel, as they reach the open field: "Well, this is the place."
O'Neill: "Yeah. How'd he open the door?"
Daniel: "Ah...it opened when he said that word."
O'Neill: "What was activated...what was that word?"
Daniel: "Ah, bark-something."
O'Neill: "Almond bark. Barcalounger. Beetlejuice."
Daniel: "Barkna. I think it was barkna."
O'Neill: "Well, if it was barkna, the door would be opening, wouldn't it?"
Daniel: "This was your idea."
O'Neill: "You're the linguist."
Daniel: "I don't remember."
O'Neill: "Well, try!"
Daniel: "Well, okay, I said can we talk about it, he said inside."
O'Neill: "I said inside what. He said...?"
Daniel: "Barokna!" The door opens.
O'Neill: "Gesundheit."

GunnerJ · 05-20-2003, 05:26 PM

Yeah.... this isn't really an evolution topic anymore.

KoopaFanatic · 05-20-2003, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Just a coupla quotes from various quotes pages (Jack O'Neill is Richard Dean Anderson)

And who could forget the classic Daniel Jackson line (in reference to either or both of the Nox or the Tollan):

"Way, way smarter than us."

05-20-2003, 05:26 PM	#39
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	Off to M&PC Yeah.... this isn't really an evolution topic anymore.

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05-19-2003, 02:11 PM	#32
Duvenoy Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Just another hick from the sticks. Posts: 1,108	Don't mess with The Trek! I love The Trek, dippy science and all. I've been a Trekkie from the day one, as I suspect many here have, but won't admit it. How else would y'all know so much about it? But, I fear that the axe lost it's edge when Rodenberry died. This latest incarnation hasn't done much for me -- it's been a while since I've watched it due to no TV.. It's a fantasy, folks. In fantasies, any stupid thing can be 'real'. Me, I just kick back and enjoy the story, and let the 'facts' take care of themselves. Alice in Wonderland with tricorders and phasers! And the same holds true for the Friends show, or any other. Let's face it; it probably all blew completly by something like 90% of those who watched it (I didn't. As mentioned, the toob crapped out a year or so back, and I've not bothered to replace it). On the other hand, it's a sad commentary on our society that such nonsense blows by such a large percentage. doov

05-19-2003, 02:47 PM	#33
KC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Narcisco, RRR Posts: 527	I would love to have seen a Friends episode where the paleontologist character actually finds his manhood when confronted by creationist students in class. Ah, fantasy. KC

05-20-2003, 04:09 AM	#34
Ape31 Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: London Posts: 365	You guys might want to check out the exchange between Ross and Phoebe in the episode The One Where Heckles Dies r.

05-20-2003, 02:32 PM	#37
Nic Tamzek Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: California Posts: 646	I may get flack for this, but I think that one of more entertaining and scientifically respectable scifi shows around is Stargate. For a long time I never even watched the show because it looked so corny and I thought that the movie was derivative (a mixture of Indiana Jones and star wars). But then for some reason I watched it and it wasn't so bad. Among the good points: Since the main characters are modern-day Air Force people, all the science that they talk about has to be reasonably close to modern-day science. They freely admit that they don't understand exactly how most of the advanced technology in the show works. They must have a science person or consultant or someone on the show, because they actually get things like carbon dating, RNA inhibitors, etc. more or less right. Unlight most scifi shows, religion is not completely avoided, rather a major theme appears to be overthrowing false gods. Of course, the show can be critiqued on various grounds, e.g. "everyone speaks english", but everyone has to make a few concessions. Plus, every show Richard Dean Anderson does what people above were saying Picard should do, the "I don't know what the hell you're talking about" routine.

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