Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Opera Nut · 08-04-2003, 12:38 PM

Yeah, and the conclusion I came to was the same idea I had when I started looking for answers, to wit:

"The world is a random and scary place. Shit happens. Deal with it, because that is ALL you can do."

emur · 08-04-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy Graham is cool
emur/mel et al.,

An interesting topic that I won't get into here, now. Soon, I will start a thread on the Resurrection at BC&H, the crux of the matter, you will be welcome to join then.

That's fine, but belief in the resurrection does not require one to believe that the bible is God's word.

Quote:

Which begs, how would you have gotten the Word out to Man if you were omnipotent God?

I cannot say for sure. I'm not omnipotent. But, the bible is a very feeble effort. If read without assuming inerrancy or that it is God's word, it is obvious that it is of human origin.

Quote:

Ah. But who is the seeker? Seeking is not merely an action but is also a condition of the heart (character/will/conscience etc). I submit that even the man himself does not truly know his own heart as well as he thinks he does. God knows fully well though. Each seeker gets what he truly seeks for.

So those who claim they were truly seeking God are mistaken then? They really were not seeking? You would have to be omniscient to know whether this were true. I will take them at their word, thank you, and not try to fit their experiences into neat little theological boxes.

Mel

winstonjen · 08-04-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy Graham is cool
winstonjen,

Interesting analysis but you assume that self-determination is a lesser good for man than security or comfort.

Regards,
BGic

What's wrong with that viewpoint? I could be a happy slave if I wasn't being tortured eternally in a pit of fire.

Cross Examiner · 08-04-2003, 04:15 PM

emur/mel,

Quote:

That's fine, but belief in the resurrection does not require one to believe that the bible is God's word.

Confidence in the historiocity of the Resurrection often leads to confidence in the Bible.

Quote:

I cannot say for sure. I'm not omnipotent. But, the bible is a very feeble effort. If read without assuming inerrancy or that it is God's word, it is obvious that it is of human origin.

The Bible is feeble? On what grounds?

Quote:

So those who claim they were truly seeking God are mistaken then? They really were not seeking?

Were seeking? As in they were seeking and are no longer seeking now? I think you (unintentionally?) hit the nail on the head. The promise of finding God is to those who seek. Continue to seek. "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13.

Quote:

You would have to be omniscient to know whether this were true. I will take them at their word, thank you, and not try to fit their experiences into neat little theological boxes.

And One is omniscient. One also happens to be the judge of such things...each is accountable for what he has been given.

Regards,
BGic

Cross Examiner · 08-04-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

What's wrong with that viewpoint? I could be a happy slave if I wasn't being tortured eternally in a pit of fire.

So avoid the "pit of fire" friend. I'll politely add here that hell is not red devils and pitchforks. You're (unintentially?) conjuring Dante and Jack Chick. But that for another day.

Besides, as humans, we are utterly defined by being able to have a choice, at least some choice.

Regards,
BGic

winstonjen · 08-04-2003, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy Graham is cool
So avoid the "pit of fire" friend. I'll politely add here that hell is not red devils and pitchforks. You're (unintentially?) conjuring Dante and Jack Chick. But that for another day.

Besides, as humans, we are utterly defined by being able to have a choice, at least some choice.

Regards,
BGic

If the choice of "Believe or suffer for eternity" is true, then it isn't really a choice because it's under duress.

Cross Examiner · 08-04-2003, 05:44 PM

winstonjen,

Quote:

If the choice of "Believe or suffer for eternity" is true, then it isn't really a choice because it's under duress.

more like telling a man caught in a swift river to grab hold of the life preserver you want to extend to him lest he drown.

Regards,
BGic

winstonjen · 08-04-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy Graham is cool
winstonjen,

more like telling a man caught in a swift river to grab hold of the life preserver you want to extend to him lest he drown.

Regards,
BGic

That analogy fails miserably because god was the one who reputedly put the man in the river in the first place. Kinda like people who write computer viruses and advertise the cure.:boohoo: :banghead:

Cross Examiner · 08-04-2003, 05:47 PM

wj,

no, man fell into the river looking at his own reflection

Now, if man had no free will then I'd agree with you.

Regards,
BG

winstonjen · 08-04-2003, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Billy Graham is cool
wj,

no, man fell into the river looking at his own reflection

Now, if man had no free will then I'd agree with you.

Regards,
BG

Talk about a gigantic non-sequitor. Do you have anything of value to add?

08-04-2003, 05:47 PM	#79
Cross Examiner Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 1,881	narcissus wj, no, man fell into the river looking at his own reflection Now, if man had no free will then I'd agree with you. Regards, BG

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-04-2003, 12:38 PM	#71
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Yeah, and the conclusion I came to was the same idea I had when I started looking for answers, to wit: "The world is a random and scary place. Shit happens. Deal with it, because that is ALL you can do."

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.