Freethought & Rationalism Archive

winstonjen · 07-22-2003, 10:08 PM

Despite their 'best' efforts, religious fundamentalists are very good at turning people away from religion - the opposite of their goal. My question is: Should they go to hell for this? Why should they be exempt from responsibility?

Bree · 07-22-2003, 10:14 PM

I'm sure the theistic response is "but their heart was in the right place!"

winstonjen · 07-22-2003, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
I'm sure the theistic response is "but their heart was in the right place!"

Or maybe they just didn't Lie for Jesus (TM) enough!

07-22-2003, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by winstonjen
Despite their 'best' efforts, religious fundamentalists are very good at turning people away from religion - the opposite of their goal. My question is: Should they go to hell for this? Why should they be exempt from responsibility?

Be nice to them because they probably are in hell already.

Proctors_Gambit · 07-22-2003, 10:21 PM

An interesting spinoff comes back to the many christians who believe that people who never hear of Jesus are not judged on that when it comes to their salvation.

E.g. A guy in africa lives his life never hearing a whisper about Jesus and God lets him into heaven on some other criteria.

Whereas some guy in communist china, is witnessed to for 5 minutes by a dickhead fundy, walks away completely unconvinced and is thus damned to hell for 'rejecting' christ.

Should fundies who are incapable of converting people and by trying actually end up damning them to hell be held responsible?

-Gambit

xorbie · 07-22-2003, 10:46 PM

It would be nice to bring this up with a fundy, but they pretty have much have good responses to these things that usually go along the lines of "In order to understand this, you need to open your heart to God"

winstonjen · 07-22-2003, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xorbie
It would be nice to bring this up with a fundy, but they pretty have much have good responses to these things that usually go along the lines of "In order to understand this, you need to open your heart to God"

Perhaps we should perform open-heart surgery on them, then wait for the anaesthetic to wear off before stitching them back up. I'm sure Magus would volunteer first.

Opera Nut · 07-23-2003, 08:37 AM

Yep,they come up with totally arbitrary and subjective tests for "salvation". Then they get steamed when you call them on it.

I'm waiting for them to line up too. Excellent idea, Winstonjen!

Milton · 07-23-2003, 09:31 AM

What constitutes knowledge? According the the Scriptures, we are held accountable for what we know.

I don't think anyone who has only had contact with some liberal, will be held guilty of rejecting Jesus Christ, if there was no other contact with someone who could present the true Jesus Christ to him. The Bible presents this in the epistle to the Romans, where Paul states that "their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them." This is in reference to those who do not know the Scriptures.

Opera Nut · 07-23-2003, 10:33 AM

If ye shall know them by their fruits, fundamentalist Christians are the meanest, most verbally abusive, self righteous crazy peopel I've ever met. I've never been treated with anything but the utmost kindness and respect in other houses of worship.

If Christians are so good, then why do they constantly have to apologize for some OTHER Christian's behavior being horrendous and inexcusable and cruel??? Why???

"I come not in peace, but with a sword..I have come to set the father in law against the son in law, and the mother in law against the daughter in law, and thine enemies may be in thine own household.."

Now isn't that what Christianity is ALL ABOUT? It's about splitting up families, families not talking to each other for three generations or more because of religious differences, hatred and division??? Isn't that what it's about??

That's what I've seen.

It's about families hating each other and losing contact because one group tried to convert other people to their group, and told them they were all going to hell.

07-22-2003, 10:08 PM	#1
winstonjen Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,425	Fundies Who Deconvert People Despite their 'best' efforts, religious fundamentalists are very good at turning people away from religion - the opposite of their goal. My question is: Should they go to hell for this? Why should they be exempt from responsibility?

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07-22-2003, 10:14 PM	#2
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	I'm sure the theistic response is "but their heart was in the right place!"

07-22-2003, 10:21 PM	#5
Proctors_Gambit Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 372	An interesting spinoff comes back to the many christians who believe that people who never hear of Jesus are not judged on that when it comes to their salvation. E.g. A guy in africa lives his life never hearing a whisper about Jesus and God lets him into heaven on some other criteria. Whereas some guy in communist china, is witnessed to for 5 minutes by a dickhead fundy, walks away completely unconvinced and is thus damned to hell for 'rejecting' christ. Should fundies who are incapable of converting people and by trying actually end up damning them to hell be held responsible? -Gambit

07-22-2003, 10:46 PM	#6
xorbie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Champaign, IL or Boston, MA Posts: 6,360	It would be nice to bring this up with a fundy, but they pretty have much have good responses to these things that usually go along the lines of "In order to understand this, you need to open your heart to God"

07-23-2003, 08:37 AM	#8
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	Yep,they come up with totally arbitrary and subjective tests for "salvation". Then they get steamed when you call them on it. I'm waiting for them to line up too. Excellent idea, Winstonjen!

07-23-2003, 09:31 AM	#9
Milton Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Atlanta,GA,USA Posts: 172	What constitutes knowledge? According the the Scriptures, we are held accountable for what we know. I don't think anyone who has only had contact with some liberal, will be held guilty of rejecting Jesus Christ, if there was no other contact with someone who could present the true Jesus Christ to him. The Bible presents this in the epistle to the Romans, where Paul states that "their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them." This is in reference to those who do not know the Scriptures.

07-23-2003, 10:33 AM	#10
Opera Nut Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,671	If ye shall know them by their fruits, fundamentalist Christians are the meanest, most verbally abusive, self righteous crazy peopel I've ever met. I've never been treated with anything but the utmost kindness and respect in other houses of worship. If Christians are so good, then why do they constantly have to apologize for some OTHER Christian's behavior being horrendous and inexcusable and cruel??? Why??? "I come not in peace, but with a sword..I have come to set the father in law against the son in law, and the mother in law against the daughter in law, and thine enemies may be in thine own household.." Now isn't that what Christianity is ALL ABOUT? It's about splitting up families, families not talking to each other for three generations or more because of religious differences, hatred and division??? Isn't that what it's about?? That's what I've seen. It's about families hating each other and losing contact because one group tried to convert other people to their group, and told them they were all going to hell.

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