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Old 05-07-2002, 07:19 AM   #41
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Sometimes, you have to look past the illusion of lies to see what the truth was really meant to be. Not that I'm trying to convert you or anything.
I agree, but since the gospel writers and the christian church have explained Jesus life with so much inconsistency and misrepresentation the truth is really anyones guess.
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Base a 'faith' on evidence? Hard to say. I accept some truths upon their philisophical weight. With these truths, I know there is a God, I know that there is a way. I know that my way is Sikhism. Perhaps a disguisting reply according to your standards, but such a thing is hard to put into words. In the near future, I plan to do such a thing, in detail, if I can. Sorry.
I hardly thing this was a disgusting reply. The difference between you and me is faith. You have it, I don't. I would argue that not much of what you believe could be proven or even experimented. What little I have learned from your religion I will say it does make more sense than most. Saying that almost all religions worship the same God, and the only thing that differs is the details. What I don't understand is how do you explain other religions that are polytheist or believe in reincarnation?
Another problem is how do you explain God's evolution through humanity. At one time most people never believed in God. Slowly people began using gods to explain the unexplained. Egyptians evened claimed pharaohs were gods. If this one God of yours existed does he make himself known? If so, how come very few people throughout history knew him.
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I don't know this for sure. Perhaps it is just a coincidence. I still hold my faith in God, with my 'faith'. Other evidences I have are just reinforcements. This reminds me to read up on Thomas Reid's proof of God.
Well when you read Thomas Reid's proof of God stay open minded and question the validity of what he's implying. Your very bright for being only 15 you'll make a good astrophysicist someday.
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Old 05-07-2002, 05:13 PM   #42
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When the day of judgement comes, I will fall on my face at the overwhelming feeling of unworthiness to be in th presence of God. Though, unworthy as I may be, I have been made clean by the blood of Jesus, and I shall live for eternity.

The question that I must pose to all who read this is: If living a TRUE Christian life means treating people kind, believing that there is a God who cares for me when no one else does, respecting my family and the governing authorities, etc., what's going to happen to me when I die? If I'm wrong, then I'll be put in a box and buried and that will be the end of me. But, if I'm right, then great will be my reward in Heaven.
On the other hand, what if I didn't believe and live the Christian life? If I were right, then I would be put in a box and buried and that would be the end of me. But if I were wrong, look what I would lose out on.

Just a thought....okay, a few thoughts.

Mr. Lowe,


We have not had an opportunity to discuss these issues you raise so I will relate some of my thoughts to you since you have been generous enough to share with us.

I think that you are probably a very nice guy and for all practical purposes are probably intelligent and family oriented and for those things, those traits, you should be proud of yourself.

I would say to you though that I do not understand how you could have developed such a poor self image. Why is it that you feel unworthy in the presence of anyone, god or no god.
What makes your life so bad and what atrocities have you committed that would lead to your falling down on your knees and begging for mercy?

Do you honestly think you have lived a life that is that terrible?
What is eating away at you my friend that would make you feel so bad about yourself?

If you have done the best you can on this earth, in the time you have been given, and you have tried to be a "good" man, a provider for those who
depend on you, and you have not purposely tried to hurt other human beings what more could you expect from yourself?

If you have lived in a "christ-like" manner as the holy rollers would say, then why would you need to prostrate yourself before the person/s after whom you have patterned your existence ?

The requirements for obtaining your heavenly reward outlined in the Biblical texts are:
"Act justly,love mercy, and walk humbly with your god."

Of course this is the Hebrews speaking and certainly not your "christian brothers" who have perverted the teachings of a Jewish Rabbi who lived for a short time more than 2000 years ago,
into a self debasing institution of organized religious ferver with the specific intention of obtaining wealth and power over millions of human beings.

You speak as though you are convinced that you are not worthy of your promised reward.
How could you think that for one minute you in your pitiful existence could ever do anything as terrible as over 2000 years of discrimination, bigotry, murder, forced conversions, and political oppression that has been the hallmark of christianity?

These pious representatives of god have been responsible for some of the worst atrocities ever committed on mankind....and they have done it in the name of the god you are prostrating yourself before begging for mercy.

The reality is that you as an individual could never in your single lifetime deal out as much misery and pain and death as the appointed representatives of god have authored throughout history.

Why do you feel it is necessary to be rewarded for living a good life anyway?
Why cant you accept that you only have so many years and you must make the very best of the time you have and act in the name of humanity and the betterment of future generations...is that not a rewarding enough existence for you?

You have a need to live forever? So you worship some supernatural being because you "think" it will provide YOU .....yourself...me ...me...me...with
life everlasting.
You see I consider that to be a most self centered and conceited goal.

You do this with not one shred of substantial evidence of this reward being anything other than a myth, the lost mine syndrome.
The treasure hunter.......searching for that reward, no sir.
I have neither the available time nor the inclination to search for gold, due to the rigors of survival in this existence.

And if my efforts at being a good person who tries to treat everyone with respect, and lend my assistance when necessary to my fellow man are not enough to allow me that same reward that you seek.....so be it.

Wolf




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Old 05-07-2002, 08:24 PM   #43
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To answer a question with some questions:

Why does it matter what we believe? Why do you think that you can believe your way into heaven? If you can believe your way into another realm, how far in miles can you believe yourself in this earthly realm? How does what I believe in change reality?

The following is from Thich Nhat Hanh's book titled Living Buddha, Living Christ.

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"Until there is peace between religions, there can be no peace in the world." People kill and are killed because they cling too tightly to their own beliefs and ideologies. When we believe that ours is the only faith that contains the truth, violence and suffering will surely be the result. The second precept of the Order of Interbeing, founded within the Zen Buddhist tradition during the war in Vietnam, is about letting go of views: "Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints."
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