Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Secular Elation · 07-31-2002, 12:53 PM

In addition to the link in the first post, here is <a href="http://www.bakersfield.com/local/story/1510482p-1628024c.html" target="_blank">bakersfield.com</a>'s article on the story.

What I dislike is how they emphasize the unity of the religions of the community and the city government. This explicitly shuns the nonreligious.

Toto · 07-31-2002, 01:14 PM

From bakersfield.com:

Quote:

"The 'under God' is what we believe in as a nation," said audience member Arti Dunham. "It's for all the people, that's why it was a beautiful thing to see all the faiths there."

Catholic Monsignor Michael Braun declared that the word "god" is neutral and should be defined by every individual.

Emad Meerza, representing Bakersfield's Muslim community, said it is the responsibility of people of faith to keep government just.

"Freedom is in direct conflict with virtue," he said. "But it also gives us the opportunity to instill virtue in our government."

Stan Simrin offered the crowd a dose of wisdom from the Jewish faith.

"Pray as if everything depended on God," he said. "Act as if everything depends on yourself."

So we have an idiot who thinks religion unifies people. A Catholic who knows how problematic it is for government to legislate religion, but he has his own solution - define God however you want. A Muslim who makes some scary statements about freedom in conflict with virtue - all those women not wearing veils, presumably, are in conflict with virtue defined by the one true Allah. And a Jew who says we should all act like atheists anyway.

No word from the Pagans, Satanists, Hindus, etc.

But pointing this out would be politically incorrect. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

god-free-pen · 07-31-2002, 01:15 PM

Foxhole:

I have found that a one or two person picket with a sign stressing the government must stay out of the religion business, done in front of the government building involved can be a very powerful statement. There were only two of us, yet we got on the front page of our small town newspaper and our message got out. We could not have bought such great exposure.

ashibaka · 07-31-2002, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by atheist_in_foxhole:

<a href="http://www.iknowbakersfield.com/homearticle.asp?id=34086&section=home&network=bake rsfield" target="_blank">Article</a>

Well, what are you waiting for? Get out the spray paint, it's graffiti time!

Alonzo Fyfe · 07-31-2002, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by capsaicin67:
I agree with the idea of promoting critical thinking skills at an early age. I have often thought that this is exactly the most important thing that could be done.

Actually, me, too. My wife and I put 25% of our income into investments that, after our deaths, will be used to fund programs designed to promote critical thinking skills among children.

Quote:

Originally posted by capsaicin67:
I'll pull out my old saw: we are going to need some fairly sophisticated leadership and projects to stem the tide, let alone have any hopes of reversing it. But I think it can be done.

I took 2 years not too long ago to read everything I could get ahold of with respect to marketing. It is an extremely powerful tool -- for anybody who has the resources. And there is no doubt that others have the resources.

Using that information, it is not at all difficult to see the strategy which is presently in place against us.

Regardless of what people say, it is the case that the Pledge (with the text "under God") and the national motto is effective at marginalizing and denigrating atheists. This is why the religoius right wants these mottos posted in our schools -- because (though they will claim otherwise to get it past the courts), it will fix into children's minds that atheists and, indeed, non-Christians are "outsiders" and those who trust in God are above all others.

Also, the religious right is seeking to tie the recent 9th Circuit Court opinion to all previous opinions that it does not like, in order to have the whole stack of opinions overturned at once. They want the full Appeals court to return a decision that can then be used to go back and reverse everything else that has been accomplished, from prayers to bible readings.

Eventually leading to the passage of an amendment stating that the United States is a Christian nation.

Denshuu · 07-31-2002, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ashibaka:

Well, what are you waiting for? Get out the spray paint, it's graffiti time!

Jack the Bodiless · 08-01-2002, 01:39 AM

I propose some covert pasting-up of posters.

How about this for a concept? A simple poster saying:

ONE NATION UNDER GOD.

ATHEISTS GET OUT.

NO COMMIES.

NO FAGGOTS.

NO JEWS.

NO NIGGERS.

Post it anywhere where "one nation under God" or "in God we trust" is on public display, and do it anonymously. Reinforce the message that this IS discrimination, just like racism is.

(Edit: just added "commies", tack on as many categories and make it as offensive to as many people as you can think of. The message: "this is what redneck bigots support")

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Jack the Bodiless ]

08-01-2002, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Alonzo Fyfe:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

And now we add:

DIVISION IS UNITY

This is spot on. It is totally Orwellian.

Quote:

Catholic Monsignor Michael Braun declared that the word "god" is neutral and should be defined by every individual.

So presumably you could define "god" as "a load of tosh".

Quote:

Emad Meerza, representing Bakersfield's Muslim community, said it is the responsibility of people of faith to keep government just.

By behaving in an unjust way to unbelievers.

Quote:

Jack the Bodiless:
ONE NATION UNDER GOD.

ATHEISTS GET OUT.

NO COMMIES.

NO FAGGOTS.

NO JEWS.

NO NIGGERS.

This might just make some of them think. It's a bit like Ron Garrett's tactics <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=47&t=000778" target="_blank">here.</a>

Alonzo Fyfe · 08-01-2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless:
Post it anywhere where "one nation under God" or "in God we trust" is on public display, and do it anonymously. Reinforce the message that this IS discrimination, just like racism is.

To take action like this anonymously just backfires. It allows others to see us as cowards skurrying in the shadows like so many cockroaches.

If one wants to take action, that action should be open and deliberate. The action should be non-violent and non-frightening but, rather, be designed to best communicate the message.

In this case, I think the Orwellian message DIVISION IS UNITY would be the most effective.

scumble · 08-01-2002, 07:34 AM

Or, God = Nothing.

This is what I think - this stuff about words is superficial. If you think like Thomas Jefferson - to him God meant something rather different than the mainstream right-wing Christians of today.

We should be really pissed off if they start passing laws to twist the way education works - like trying to teach kids that the foundation of the USA is their brand of Christianity, when our friend Jefferson hated the idiotic Calvinists and other fundementalist gas-bags.

Remember, over here in Europe we had the same problem, and the prominence of Christianity here has been dying off rapidly. I believe the USA is just a bit behind on this development (hopefully).

It's just slow to wear off.

08-01-2002, 01:39 AM	#17
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	I propose some covert pasting-up of posters. How about this for a concept? A simple poster saying: ONE NATION UNDER GOD. ATHEISTS GET OUT. NO COMMIES. NO FAGGOTS. NO JEWS. NO NIGGERS. Post it anywhere where "one nation under God" or "in God we trust" is on public display, and do it anonymously. Reinforce the message that this IS discrimination, just like racism is. (Edit: just added "commies", tack on as many categories and make it as offensive to as many people as you can think of. The message: "this is what redneck bigots support") [ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Jack the Bodiless ]</p>

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07-31-2002, 12:53 PM	#11
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	In addition to the link in the first post, here is <a href="http://www.bakersfield.com/local/story/1510482p-1628024c.html" target="_blank">bakersfield.com</a>'s article on the story. What I dislike is how they emphasize the unity of the religions of the community and the city government. This explicitly shuns the nonreligious.

07-31-2002, 01:15 PM	#13
god-free-pen Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Navarre, FL Posts: 109	Foxhole: I have found that a one or two person picket with a sign stressing the government must stay out of the religion business, done in front of the government building involved can be a very powerful statement. There were only two of us, yet we got on the front page of our small town newspaper and our message got out. We could not have bought such great exposure.

08-01-2002, 07:34 AM	#20
scumble Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 279	Or, God = Nothing. This is what I think - this stuff about words is superficial. If you think like Thomas Jefferson - to him God meant something rather different than the mainstream right-wing Christians of today. We should be really pissed off if they start passing laws to twist the way education works - like trying to teach kids that the foundation of the USA is their brand of Christianity, when our friend Jefferson hated the idiotic Calvinists and other fundementalist gas-bags. Remember, over here in Europe we had the same problem, and the prominence of Christianity here has been dying off rapidly. I believe the USA is just a bit behind on this development (hopefully). It's just slow to wear off.

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