BadBadBad

I've been following Stummin' for Jesus

Vicar Philips goes to a Methodist preacher over a religious marriage conflict. The preacher confesses that he's a non-theist. This is shocking shocking shocking! Silly me, I was arguing that Vicar was about to get a dose of fire and brimstone. The guy says to the effect, no, you're right, there is no God! I've been to sermons where the preacher tells everyone to look around the room to see if they can tell who will be left standing on the day of rapture. Little did I know it might include the preacher himself! Should I be surprised by this?

I've read about polls showing 90% of Americans believe in God. What are the numbers, 0.5 % atheist? I just find that a little difficult to swallow. For example, I read today:


I've heard a lot of talk about liberal christians here. You know, it's ok to be christian, just throw out most of that silly stuff in the Bible, say you believe in Jesus and it's those other christians that are a thorn in your side. I had no idea it went all the way to the pulpit. Plus, I wonder about that 14% that don't go to church. What can we conclude when they claim christianity?

I'm not interested in Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran. I would like to know what percentage of Americans we could classify as fundie, "christian," so liberal you'd have to stretch real hard to call it christian, I don't know a thing about christianity but I am one, and I swear I'm christian (ie too afraid to check the atheist box). Who wants to start a survey?

Care to take a guess at the percentages?

Here's a few questions we might throw in:

- who was the Apostle Paul?
- can you name any of the Gospel books?
- what does the term "born again" mean to you?
- when was the last time you attended church?
- Do people really go to Hell?
- Do you believe in creation and the great flood?
- Do you believe in the miracles of Jesus Christ?
- What is God? (I threw that one in just cause I've always wanted to know)
- Do you get to heaven on faith or deeds?

What else should be on the questionaire?

thebeave

I've always had this fantasy that someday when Pres. Bush is in a town hall meeting style debate, a bold, smart ass atheist will pose those embarrassing questions to Bush in front of millions of people. Then watch the squirming begin. He did, after all, claim JC was his "hero" or some such rubbish.

beyelzu

--What is the rapture?

--Who gets to go to heave?

--can you name 7 of the 10 commandments?

--How long was Paul an apostle of Christ?
a trick question

---Have you ever been to a faith healing?

--Have you ever donated money to Benny Hinn or the 700 club?

fando

Yeah, it would be nice to see a poll that measures how seriously religious people regard their theism. I bet a significant minority (around 40%) don't care or know much and could sufficiently be labled non-religious for most practical purposes except for those knee-jerk heavy issues like abortion and moral politics. That is, they are dittoheads who can't be bothered to think or don't want to go against the grain.

Sabine Grant

You might want to add " what is your testimony" in your questionnaire. Personal experience with God is IMO more revealing of the degree of a person's faith than their participation in organized religion or their knowledge of the Bible.

I would venture to explain that a reason why so many christians do not attend church is because they are disappointed by the course of organized religion. They either do not fit into any particular church dogma or they have reached a level of being fed up with division and competition between denominations.

You will also find that multi denominational churches or non denominational are becoming more and more popular. I think some christians are hungry for a place of worship and growth where there is productivity and a motivation to be involved with the rest of humanity rather than be taught " the only true doctrine".

The church I attent to for example is multi denominational. They focus on providing rehab centers and counseling, support groups to equip people with the tools to deal with every day problems. From a support group for children of divorced families to the hardcore issues of chemical addiction and alcoholism. Some of their counselors are professional counselors with established practices in the Tampa community who volunteer their time with the counseling sessions.

MollyMac

Excuse my ignorance but what is the rapture?

Molly

Marduk

The word rapture is not in the Bible, it is an interpretation of the Book of Revelations that a few fundy Christians subscribe to. They think that before the second coming of Christ 144,000 people will be beamed up to Heaven, physically disappear from Earth. Then a whole bunch of bad stuff will happen to the rest of us while Jesus & Satan duke it out.

Marduk

- who was the Apostle Paul? A big fan of Jesus around 60 CE who preached and got into a lot of trouble, hijacked Christianity from the 12 disciples and made it a new religion, not just a branch of Judaism
- can you name any of the Gospel books? Sure, Mat. Mark Luke John
- what does the term "born again" mean to you? conversion experience
- when was the last time you attended church? Maundy Thursday, I think
- Do people really go to Hell? Idunno, I hope not, that would suck
- Do you believe in creation and the great flood? Creation, sure, things got created somehow, big flood, no
- Do you believe in the miracles of Jesus Christ? Before my time, how would I know
- What is God? (I threw that one in just cause I've always wanted to know) who the hell knows, some kind of alien like Q or something
- Do you get to heaven on faith or deeds? Idunno
That was fun

stryder2112

Sorry, you've gotten confused by brettc's post. I've been meaning to bring this up, so this looks as good as anywhere.

brettc's experience with Christianity has been more-or-less exclusively with some variant of fundamentalist, Baptist-esque Christianity. Unfortunately, he's generalizing from this experience to the whole of Christianity, not realizing that this strain of "rapture-ready," fire-and-brimstone fundamentalism is particular to a certain segment of 20th century Christianity.

Contrasting this segment with the whole of Christianity today, one will see that it is really a rather small, but vocal, minority. Contrasting it with the whole of Christianity since its inception, you'll see that it is a rather bizarre anomaly of the 19th and 20th centuries in the US. The history of the rise of fundamentalism as a reactionary response to 19th century theology and literary criticism of the Bible and the marriage of fundamentalism to premillennial dispensation eschatology is best left to another post.

Anyway, that was simply prologue to the answer to your question: What is the rapture?

I previewed part of the answer above. The rapture is a fixture of premillennial dispensational eschatology. I know that's a mouth-full, so I'll break it down. Eschatology is the study of the "end times." Dispensationalism has roots back to the middle ages, but didn't become popular until the 19th century, and then only popular within "evangelical Protestantism." Dispensationalism posits that the history of the world is broken into Biblical "ages" where god's relationship to humans is marked by a different governing principle (this is really an attempt to reconcile the harsh purity laws of the Old Testament to why Christians don't have to follow them now.)

Now on to "premillenial eschatology." Premillenial, dispensational eschatology posits that when the current Biblical age comes to an end that the "true believers" will be whisked away to heaven to avoid the tribulations that are about to occur. Premillenial dispensationalists believe that the descriptions in the book of Revelations (plagues, war, trumpeting angels, the antichrist etc.) will quite literally occur after the Rapture occurs. This Rapture is quite literal. Preachers in this vein preach about how "when the rapture occurs" that people will simply vanish - cars will veer off the road having been left driverless, etc.

I'm sure you're quite shocked to hear that there are folks who believe all of this, especially since you’re a Brit and haven't had to live in the US (especially the South and some parts of the Midwest) where these types of Christians are rather common.

If you're curious about a little history about the origins of dispensationalism, pop "John Nelson Darby" into Google. For a little history into the spreading of this idea, the must read is about Cyrus Ingerson Scofield and his Scofield Reference Bible.

A pretty good and accessible book that details most of this is Understanding Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism writen by George Marsden, an evangelical Christian himself. For a more scathing review of the history see Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity by Bruce Bawer.

Stryder

Gemma Therese

[QUOTE]Originally posted by brettc
[B]I've been following Stummin' for Jesus

Here's a few questions we might throw in:

= my response.

- who was the Apostle Paul?

Saul killed Christians, until Jesus appeared and asked him, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" Then, Saul converted to Christianity and changed his name to Paul, as a sign of his conversion.

- can you name any of the Gospel books?

Matthew Mark, Luke and John.

- what does the term "born again" mean to you?

It means the daily conversion of heart all Christians must experience -- definitely not a "I accept Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior" type of statement.

- when was the last time you attended church?

Yesterday morning.

- Do people really go to Hell?

Yes.

- Do you believe in creation and the great flood?

I believe the world was created, and God was respnsible for its creation, but I believe in evolution. The flood is, I believe, a symbolic story of human corruption.

- Do you believe in the miracles of Jesus Christ?

Yes.

- What is God? (I threw that one in just cause I've always wanted to know)

God is the perfect Being, Creator of heaven and earth.

- Do you get to heaven on faith or deeds?

Both. Read Matthew 25.

Gemma Therese