Milton

First of all, you said all [of] the Bible. This was in response to a quote by one of the other members. So, it would be safe to take it that you said that you rejected absolutely everything said in there.

Second, if you say that it is not a guide for morality, then you certainly can't learn any moral value from the stories in it. At least not in a direct way--the only way would be by applying it reversely, where you do the exact opposite of what the story is attempting to have you believe.

And third, how can you say that Isaiah had a vision, when you don't even believe he existed, don't know if he existed, and certainly can't know that, even if he existed, that he actually had the vision. The only way you can verify the vision would be, if you had the same vision as well.

Well, whoever you mention, it is all the same. How do you know these people had the vision? Did you have the same vision?

And I believe we are an illusion.

emotional

All right, I agree. I stand corrected.



I've never had a single vision in my whole life. All I have is blind faith.

Yet the pain is real enough. An illusion, but with such a good impression of being real. Perhaps real after all? Or a real illusion? A contradiction in terms?

I repeat: those who tell me the universe is an illusion might as well tell me I'm not really alive.

Milton

A reality within the illusion...in other words, its all part of the illusion.

And yes, you are alive. Alive is only relative to this world.

emotional

Then the word "illusion" has no practical meaning. In a real illusion, like those we create as films, the characters are unconscious of their being an illusion. This world is the only "illusion" in which the characters are conscious of playing the game. In a film, you can't have one of the characters jump out freely doing what he wants - all play a predefined script. What makes the real world real is that we're not playing a predefined script. I can't just, when encountering something that doesn't please me in the real world, protest loudly and say, "hey! Change the script!", because there is no script - it's all real and not a play, not an illusion!

So I may accept that the universe is an illusion on a purely technical basis (the crazy ideas that scientists dream up). But heaven help me if I behave according to such a conception! It's a real world, and I can't excuse myself stealing things because "it's all just an illusion".

Jobar

Emotional, I am a pantheist (well, an atheist/pantheist), not a solipsist.

What is illusion here is not that you *are*- it's that what you are *now* is all you are.

The very atoms of your brain were forged in a supernova. One day, those atoms will be in a supernova again. In infinite time, those atoms will form minute constituents of stars, planets, comets, even life forms completely unknown to us here and now. That's physics, and unless *you* want to descend into solipsism, you have to admit the reality of that.

I know, I know, you don't think those atoms are *you*. So tell me, just what are you, if not the atoms that build your physical body?

You might say that you are the pattern which those atoms create, the human that is known on these boards as emotional. Is that pattern, not the atoms, you?

Ah, but that pattern is ever-changing. So you have to accept that you are only 'emotional' until you no longer are; and just when did you become that person? Your consciousness is evanescent.

Are you a soul? I would deny that, but I know Christians would say so; you say you are a spiritualist, so I expect you do too.

So tell me, emotional- and you Christians, too- just what *is* a soul, or spirit? How do *you* know you have one?

Milton

Normally, but not always. I mean, there have been some films where the characters are made to stop whatever they are doing, and look at the camera and start talking to us as if they knew we were there.

Also, we can choose whatever we want our characters to do. Make them aware or not. We are supposed to be made aware of this, but most, like yourself, choose to deny it, and live out the illusion that they are. I accept it, and also live out the illusion that I am. After all, what can I do? I cannot leave this world, if I die, I just continue on with the next phase of it. I never exit the illusion.

Exactly, they are all predefined scripts.

Of course we are.

Of course you can't make God change it. You just can't escape it.

I don't believe you need to know that you are an illusion, in order for you to know how to behave in this world. But it sure helps me deal with things a lot better. I mean, I conform to whatever God sends my way. It is His choice, I can do nothing but make the best out of it for myself.

Well, you can say that it is all an illusion, but then you will also have the illusion of being in jail for stealing. It is all part of the illusion.

I am a soul. While in this life, I am composed of both body and spirit. The spirit is the force that gives life to the body. Though consciousness in this life is, in a way, affected by the physical, it is also able to exist without the body.

However, I tend to believe that my consciousness will cease to exist (not sure that is the proper term) once my body ceases to function--at death. But then it will become existent or restarted once I am given a new body.

Bible Humper

The hippy who wrote that article needs to put away his incense, and open a window.

LOL This is an obvious euphemism for "laughed their asses off at us". Like those close-minded fools did to Mr Timecube,

Oh, and how many is "many"? 99%? Later in the article he reveals that it is a "small" number of researchers who actually buy into this stuff.

These words can mean anything, but most people don't associate extreme values with words like "many". An obvious attempt to minimize the perception of this being a fringe idea.

Yeah, I bet. We all know how people get in matters of faith.....

This cracked me up. Textbook persuasion, folks. How small is "small". I'll bet dollars to donuts it is a hell of a lot smaller than the proportions people tend to associate with the word "small" automatically.

Still have to soften a word like "small", though. I bet if you try real hard, you can think of a commercial or ad which used this exact same softener. "A small but growing number of doctors are recommending our product for...."

If the Guru who dreamed this stuff up convinced one guy, the "group" is "growing".

Presupposing that there are actual paranormal phenomena to begin with!

Since when were there confirmed "para-psychological phenomena" in need of further understanding?

ROFLMAO. First of all, the supposed "telepaths" all failed miserably when tested in laboratory conditions. There is no need to search for an explanation for telepathy.




Puzzles such as???????

And you only need to try and "understand how information can travel from the mind of individual 'A' to that of individual 'B' at a far distance point" if you're a new ager who swallowed the excuses of the "telepaths" regarding the "bad vibes" those nasty skeptics give off in their controlled laboratory experiments which they all failed.

Once again, with no hint as to what "baffling phenomena" he is referring to.

Maybe his horoscope told him on the day he wrote this that he should "not worry about the details today" LOL

What's with the Sleepy Skeptic Syndrome? I was expecting a scything response to this article from an Infidel who knows his physics. Among the first few responses!