Calzaer

JT:
*L* I've considered myself Wiccan for several years. I decided to actually contact a teacher I know and ask if she'd teach me, formally, just within the last month. It's an exercise in buckling down and actually learning, as opposed to being a "wiccan beginner" for the rest of my life. Ugh. It's been like trying to teach myself card tricks up until now.

The issues with Christianity really concern my teacher. Since her wife is a presbeterian and all.... (wrap your mind around THAT one!) Working through them is alot tougher than I thought it would be.... you wouldn't happen to have any tips, would ya?

Illithid:
Granted. That's probably not the best analogy, but I needed something that was at least within the realm of possibility. If I said I was 800 years old and couldn't prove it ("They didn't have birth certificates back then!"), that'd be a whole different argument. I'm actually 21, in case it comes up.

Perhaps a better example would be if I claimed to have a puma as a housepet. I've always wanted a puma. Or a cheetah cub.

Infidelettante

Originally posted by Calzaer
JT:
*L* I've considered myself Wiccan for several years. I decided to actually contact a teacher I know and ask if she'd teach me, formally, just within the last month. It's an exercise in buckling down and actually learning, as opposed to being a "wiccan beginner" for the rest of my life. Ugh. It's been like trying to teach myself card tricks up until now.

I've been working on this for fifteen years and just when I think I'm advancing something pops up to remind me I'm only a beginner. Maybe I need a teacher too. Any tips on how to bring one my way?

The issues with Christianity really concern my teacher. Since her wife is a presbeterian and all.... (wrap your mind around THAT one!) Working through them is alot tougher than I thought it would be.... you wouldn't happen to have any tips, would ya?

Not much to go on you understand but she may not be aware that her wifes religion is having that effect on the teacher-student relationship between you and her. Ask. Nicely.

Mixed marriges. My wife is not religious though she belongs to a Methodist church. She does rib me now and then about having *all this devil stuff* around the house.

Calzaer

I got really lucky, actually. I was just looking for friends in the area through witchvox.com 's "witches of the world" section, and found my current teacher. I've been hanging out with her for over a year before I finally asked her to teach me.

The only problem comes up when I forget her wife is Christian and make some bitter/cynical generalization. I've sort of been living the PFLAG billboard: "Be care who you hate, it may be someone you love", just from a different angle. :b

Infidelettante

AH, so you are the problem. Didn't think of that. You're on your own on this one. Cain't help.

happyboy

i'm still waiting for you to magickally cure my dad of cancer, JTVrocher.

Calzaer

Happyboy: Sounds like someone else has anger issues, too!

JT: Cery few people want to think of ourselves as the problem, but yes, that about sums it up.
For all the love and tolerance I talk about, I can't seem to practice it with a rather large section of the population and I'm not sure why.

Valmorian

The quality of evidence for a claim should be proportional to the unusual nature of the claim.

also known as "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

Anecdotes are not good evidence.

Calzaer

There ya go. That's my point right there.

I also think "extrordinary claims require extrordinary evidence" is a bit misleading. An extrordinary claim has the same evidential requirements as a mundane claim. The matter is that an extrordinary claim is more likely to evoke a "prove it" reaction than a mundane claim. The rules of evidence are identical (unless you're saying that claims you personally believe are extrordinary must have more evidence than other claims need to have. If "I have a mother" requires one piece of evidence to prove, would "I have a cheetah cub" require three?)

Infidelettante

I ask the mods to bear with us on this one.

Happyboy I have never claimed any powers other than those which help me find ways to deal with the difficulties of life in interesting and novel ways.

Your anger with me regarding the occult comes from the obvious fact that you are more willing to learn about it from TV shows and movies than from those who actually practice its' arts and know its' limitations.

Your continued hostility toward me is unwarrented.

1] I have never claimed to be able to heal anyone by way of ritual.To do so would be unethical and against every principal I, as a Pagan hold dear.

2] I never, never, never spell magic with a *K*. You will be unable to find evidence to the contrary which is evidence of my assertion that you judge me by standards other than my own.

3] My father died 25 years ago. It hurts still. There is not one thing I now use in the occultic arts that I could have used then to save him. I did what I could to ease us both through but it was then, and would be now only what a son does for his father and family.

4] If you continue this harangue you harm only your own well being and in no way help your father. I suggest that your energy and love be directed toward him. The anger you aim at me will not allow you to fully attend to his needs and will lessen any effort you make to care for him. Anger is a natural reaction to this but if you can not put it aside or curb it you will do far more harm than your diatribes against me are worth.

5] Number four above is the only, I repeat, the only help I as an Occultist can offer you. I wish you and your father easy passage.
My regrets, that so difficult a time was made more so by any misunderstanding between us.

JT

Valmorian

"I have a cheetah cub" really isn't all that extraordinary.

Things like:
"I can cast magical spells to make it rain."
"I can summon spirits from the grave to answer questions."

Are QUITE extraordinary.

I've known people who believe both of those things. I consider them to be deluded in those matters.