Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chris Gillies · 12-23-2002, 06:05 PM

I recently read an interesting book about the dead sea scrolls. One of the more interesting points they raised was that the Romans historically only crucified political insurrectionist (their point being that the Romans didn't crucify common thieves, and assuuming for a moment that Jesus is an actual historical figure, he would only have been crucified if he was inciting violence against the state).

Without starting a debate on the existence of Jesus, I would be interested in finding empirical evidence (ie contemporary references from roman writer, historical documents) that mention the Roman use of crucifiction as punishment.

If anyone can point me to some of these sources I would be grateful

Peter Kirby · 12-23-2002, 11:42 PM

Easily the best book on the practice of crucifixion in antiquity is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/080061268X/internetinfidelsA" target="_blank">Martin Hengel's Crucifixion in the Ancient World and the Folly of the Message of the Cross</a>, which is translated by Bowden. It includes many of the relevant passages from ancient texts.

best,
Peter Kirby

The Admiral · 12-24-2002, 06:22 AM

Peter

I just ordered the book you mention above plus 2 more by Hengel since I have never read anything by him previously.

The Admiral

edited by me to remove extraneous comments

[ December 24, 2002: Message edited by: The Admiral ]</p>

luvluv · 12-30-2002, 02:07 PM

In simply claiming to be the messiah in the political and social environment of Judea at the time, couldn't Jesus quite easily be construed as a political insurrectionist?

Didn't the sh&* hit the proverbial fan when Jesus claimed to be the King of the Jews? Just a guy being around who people were listening to who thought he was the messiah would be plenty of justification for crucifying him.

Defiant Heretic · 12-31-2002, 05:54 AM

Wasn't Jesus supposed to have been crucified with two thieves, as well? Even if Jesus would have been considered a political insurrectionist, there would be no reason for them to be there. (Except to make the story better)

The Admiral · 12-31-2002, 06:56 AM

Ouch!!! UPS brought me Crucifixion by Martin Hengle yesterday. I aint big but it's heavy. For me anyway.

The Admiral

12-23-2002, 06:05 PM	#1
Chris Gillies New Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1	Who did the Romans Crucify? I recently read an interesting book about the dead sea scrolls. One of the more interesting points they raised was that the Romans historically only crucified political insurrectionist (their point being that the Romans didn't crucify common thieves, and assuuming for a moment that Jesus is an actual historical figure, he would only have been crucified if he was inciting violence against the state). Without starting a debate on the existence of Jesus, I would be interested in finding empirical evidence (ie contemporary references from roman writer, historical documents) that mention the Roman use of crucifiction as punishment. If anyone can point me to some of these sources I would be grateful

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12-23-2002, 11:42 PM	#2
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Easily the best book on the practice of crucifixion in antiquity is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/080061268X/internetinfidelsA" target="_blank">Martin Hengel's Crucifixion in the Ancient World and the Folly of the Message of the Cross</a>, which is translated by Bowden. It includes many of the relevant passages from ancient texts. best, Peter Kirby

12-24-2002, 06:22 AM	#3
The Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Racine, Wi. USA Posts: 768	Peter I just ordered the book you mention above plus 2 more by Hengel since I have never read anything by him previously. The Admiral edited by me to remove extraneous comments [ December 24, 2002: Message edited by: The Admiral ]</p>

12-30-2002, 02:07 PM	#4
luvluv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Planet Lovetron Posts: 3,919	In simply claiming to be the messiah in the political and social environment of Judea at the time, couldn't Jesus quite easily be construed as a political insurrectionist? Didn't the sh&* hit the proverbial fan when Jesus claimed to be the King of the Jews? Just a guy being around who people were listening to who thought he was the messiah would be plenty of justification for crucifying him.

12-31-2002, 05:54 AM	#5
Defiant Heretic Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,288	Wasn't Jesus supposed to have been crucified with two thieves, as well? Even if Jesus would have been considered a political insurrectionist, there would be no reason for them to be there. (Except to make the story better)

12-31-2002, 06:56 AM	#6
The Admiral Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Racine, Wi. USA Posts: 768	Ouch!!! UPS brought me Crucifixion by Martin Hengle yesterday. I aint big but it's heavy. For me anyway. The Admiral

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