Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jordan_tar · 01-29-2002, 03:30 PM

So today at my school, the "Christian Philosophical Society" - a club headed by a girl I know - had a speaker in. He was Dave Nutting (ahem), who I'd never heard of. He was to give a presentation on "creationism vs. evolution".

I went with a couple of friends. Arriving, there were set out on all the chairs lists of quotations from prominent "evolutionists" - including an out-of-context quotation from Gould making it look like he believed in creation ex nihilo.

It began with the guy putting a newspaper article on the mock-up, from the Denver Post, discussing how the Columbine killers were fervent believers in evolution. "Now I'm not saying all evolutionists believe this," he said, "but under evolution, how do you determine right and wrong?"

On and on he went, blithely misquoting and misconstruing, talking of Lucy and the Piltdown man, the second law of thermodynamics and intelligent design, repeatedly putting pictures of unpleasant-looking beasts up and saying, "Evolutionists say this is your granddaddy." Repeatedly, he said "evolutionists wear rose-colored glasses."

It ended, and he began to field questions. The first was from a girl, near tears saying that she was shocked and disgusted by his having compared believers in evolution to Harris and Klebold. "Well," he said, "I didn't actually say that, I'm just telling you what the story said."

Other people - two different people, actually - asked why, even if he could prove that evolution wasn't true, why they should buy creationism. He said that "the absence of one proves the presence of the other," and inserted Pascal's wager as a back-up device.

Finally he called on me. I asked about Duane Gish, who he'd cited several times...I said something to the effect of, "ICR members are required to sign a pledge saying they'll lose their jobs if they don't subscribe to the bible as literal truth - now who did you say is wearing the rose-coloured glasses?" He told an anecdote about how he'd been fired from a university for teaching creationism. Well, I'd like to hear the rest of the story from the administrators, I thought privately, but I couldn't stay much longer, so I just said "That was one college - doesn't mean it happens at others, or that it's widespread."

I did, however, appreciate the fact that everybody who asked a question criticized some questionable aspect of his presentation. The presentation, I heard from a friend, was more or less seen as a joke in the science department; all I can say is that I hope the teachers got around to asking questions after I left.

Secular Elation · 01-29-2002, 03:36 PM

"Christian Philosophical Society?" Ha! And I thought the worst it got was a mere Bible club!

Pantera · 01-29-2002, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jordan_tar:
Dave Nutting

No! Surely that's not his name!

hezekiah jones · 01-29-2002, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Important Quote!: W[endell] R. Bird is a member of the most prestigious legal organization, The American Law Institute, and is listed in the most selective directory, Who’s Who in the World. In his book The Origin of the Species Revisited he states; "One wonders, if evolution is a fact of science, how do legal experts trained in evaluating evidence declare it is without evidence. Or, how do scientists like Dave Nutting deliver lectures at national conferences with titles like 'Fifty scientific reasons why evolution is wrong?'"

Good point, Wendell.

Quote:

Your search - "Dave Nutting" credentials - did not match any documents.

Heath Anderson · 01-29-2002, 05:11 PM

It's good that people questioned this guy though. I HATE it when cretinists shove morality and sin into evolution discussions
I once went to a "Creationism vs Evolution" seminar at my brother's god club (Assembly of God)where a 'distinguished' scientist - Dr Roy Peacock, was giving a speech on the flaws of evolution. As soon as he mentioned the name Gish, I knew I was in for a real treat. Apparently this guy is an aeronautical scientist 'with a part of the combustion engine named after him' (as told by the promotional brochure)
Anyway, he made some outlandish and thoroughly tired claims involving the eye, the 2nd LOT, radiocarbon dating and Lucy etc etc ad nauseum. The most outrageous example he gave, however, was to do with the nature of DNA. He claimed that "We all know that as soon as one bit of the DNA becomes detached or mutated, the entire strand of DNA unravels." I questioned him about this, and his scientific ability to discuss it, but unfortunately, the audience consisted solely of God's Cheerleaders, so I was quickly shown the door by some glaze-eyed drooling housewife with a giddy grin. My brother then called me dogmatic because I still believed in evolution.
Sigh.

[ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: Heath Anderson ]

Arrowman · 01-29-2002, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heath Anderson:
Apparently this guy is an aeronautical scientist 'with a part of the combustion engine named after him' (as told by the promotional brochure)

Er... that would be a waste valve, right?

liquid · 01-30-2002, 01:32 PM

Lol! I'm an aerospace engineer and I've never heard of the guy. I'm trying to think what part it could be...

Maybe its the big end,
or the flange,
or the crank shaft,
or maybe they got it wrong and mean the wankel engine (which isn't rude but sounds as though it should be!)

Dr Rick · 01-30-2002, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by liquid:
...maybe they got it wrong and mean the wankel engine...

That would make sense; talking with a creationist makes one just go 'round and 'round.

hezekiah jones · 01-30-2002, 01:48 PM

My guess would be the "ballast resistor." It doesn't matter how much ballast is dropped on them, they just continue to resist.

Mageth · 01-30-2002, 02:10 PM

Definitely carburetor. Outdated, full of hot air and gas, prone to "flooding," mixes things up, generates an inordinate amount of foul pollution and requires frequent choking.

[ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

01-29-2002, 03:30 PM	#1
jordan_tar Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Denver/Tulsa Posts: 78	DISGUSTED! So today at my school, the "Christian Philosophical Society" - a club headed by a girl I know - had a speaker in. He was Dave Nutting (ahem), who I'd never heard of. He was to give a presentation on "creationism vs. evolution". I went with a couple of friends. Arriving, there were set out on all the chairs lists of quotations from prominent "evolutionists" - including an out-of-context quotation from Gould making it look like he believed in creation ex nihilo. It began with the guy putting a newspaper article on the mock-up, from the Denver Post, discussing how the Columbine killers were fervent believers in evolution. "Now I'm not saying all evolutionists believe this," he said, "but under evolution, how do you determine right and wrong?" On and on he went, blithely misquoting and misconstruing, talking of Lucy and the Piltdown man, the second law of thermodynamics and intelligent design, repeatedly putting pictures of unpleasant-looking beasts up and saying, "Evolutionists say this is your granddaddy." Repeatedly, he said "evolutionists wear rose-colored glasses." It ended, and he began to field questions. The first was from a girl, near tears saying that she was shocked and disgusted by his having compared believers in evolution to Harris and Klebold. "Well," he said, "I didn't actually say that, I'm just telling you what the story said." Other people - two different people, actually - asked why, even if he could prove that evolution wasn't true, why they should buy creationism. He said that "the absence of one proves the presence of the other," and inserted Pascal's wager as a back-up device. Finally he called on me. I asked about Duane Gish, who he'd cited several times...I said something to the effect of, "ICR members are required to sign a pledge saying they'll lose their jobs if they don't subscribe to the bible as literal truth - now who did you say is wearing the rose-coloured glasses?" He told an anecdote about how he'd been fired from a university for teaching creationism. Well, I'd like to hear the rest of the story from the administrators, I thought privately, but I couldn't stay much longer, so I just said "That was one college - doesn't mean it happens at others, or that it's widespread." I did, however, appreciate the fact that everybody who asked a question criticized some questionable aspect of his presentation. The presentation, I heard from a friend, was more or less seen as a joke in the science department; all I can say is that I hope the teachers got around to asking questions after I left.

01-29-2002, 05:11 PM	#5
Heath Anderson Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 119	It's good that people questioned this guy though. I HATE it when cretinists shove morality and sin into evolution discussions I once went to a "Creationism vs Evolution" seminar at my brother's god club (Assembly of God)where a 'distinguished' scientist - Dr Roy Peacock, was giving a speech on the flaws of evolution. As soon as he mentioned the name Gish, I knew I was in for a real treat. Apparently this guy is an aeronautical scientist 'with a part of the combustion engine named after him' (as told by the promotional brochure) Anyway, he made some outlandish and thoroughly tired claims involving the eye, the 2nd LOT, radiocarbon dating and Lucy etc etc ad nauseum. The most outrageous example he gave, however, was to do with the nature of DNA. He claimed that "We all know that as soon as one bit of the DNA becomes detached or mutated, the entire strand of DNA unravels." I questioned him about this, and his scientific ability to discuss it, but unfortunately, the audience consisted solely of God's Cheerleaders, so I was quickly shown the door by some glaze-eyed drooling housewife with a giddy grin. My brother then called me dogmatic because I still believed in evolution. Sigh. [ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: Heath Anderson ]</p>

01-30-2002, 02:10 PM	#10
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Definitely carburetor. Outdated, full of hot air and gas, prone to "flooding," mixes things up, generates an inordinate amount of foul pollution and requires frequent choking. [ January 30, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

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01-29-2002, 03:36 PM	#2
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	"Christian Philosophical Society?" Ha! And I thought the worst it got was a mere Bible club!

01-30-2002, 01:32 PM	#7
liquid Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,440	Lol! I'm an aerospace engineer and I've never heard of the guy. I'm trying to think what part it could be... Maybe its the big end, or the flange, or the crank shaft, or maybe they got it wrong and mean the wankel engine (which isn't rude but sounds as though it should be!)

01-30-2002, 01:48 PM	#9
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	My guess would be the "ballast resistor." It doesn't matter how much ballast is dropped on them, they just continue to resist.

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