Freethought & Rationalism Archive

emotional · 07-27-2003, 10:11 AM

For those of you who have websites: do you prefer to code the HTML manually, using a text editor of some sort, or do you prefer to use a WYSIWYG tool such as Macromedia Dreamweaver? Or do you use a combination of the two? Or do you use the one solution for a particular website, and the other for a different kind of website?

For my part, I code the HTML manually for my small personal website, but if I were to build a large one, I'd use a WYSIWYG editor (I have FrontPage 2002).

lisarea · 07-27-2003, 10:53 AM

My answer ain't thar.

I have macros I've written in NoteTab that I use to for one-off pages, small to medium sized sites, and maintenance. I've pretty thoroughly tested the code and have a few basic CSSs I can tweak that I've also tested on a variety of platforms and browsers, so I consider the code 'safe,' and no, I don't have any interest in doing the extra typing. I rarely hand-code a page completely in terms of actually typing in the tags and stuff. (Though I did do just that the day before yesterday, after which I thought to myself, "Hey. Why did I just do that?")

For larger corporate sites and such, I've generally used a tool, but not a WYSIWYG editor. The last time I was doing that for clients, I was using Zope and ArsDigita ACS.

I'm pretty big on developing sites so they're portable and maintainable, and I think that using a WYSIWYG tool tends to distract from that. I find it helpful, as such, to separate the code from the design--leaving the actual design elements strictly in a stylesheet, and organizing and tagging the content logically. I'd imagine the temptation in a WYSIWYG would be to add design elements as you're going along, without considering the overall site design and presentation of the information.

And even if you are not building a big database-driven site, IMO, it helps to have your content organized in such a way that, if your site did some day become large enough to justify that, you could search on pseudo tags to pull out of the HTML and dump in wholesale.

TinFoilGrrl · 07-27-2003, 11:02 AM

By hand, with BBEdit.

Actually, I use BBEdit for HTML, coding, writing, and stripping the text from Microsoft Word docs. It's the best reason I know to own a Mac.

Hedwig · 07-27-2003, 12:51 PM

I'm more familiar with doing the HTML coding myself so that's how I feel most comfortable. I'm learning to appreciate builders like Dreamweaver (though the sonofabitch program doesn't always work the way I would like and I have to go in and correct shit manually.)

ju'iblex · 07-27-2003, 02:24 PM

By hand! Microsoft Thingy and Macromedia Dreamweaver are the utter banes of my existence. I. Hate. Them. I blame them for all those little crappy geocities websites <please don't point out the irony here> with 13 year olds going "i like unicorns and am 13. do you like me?".

<meta name="microsoft" content="null">

emotional · 07-27-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ju'iblex
By hand! Microsoft Thingy and Macromedia Dreamweaver are the utter banes of my existence. I. Hate. Them.

But ... they could be time-saving. <html><head><title></title> is okay for a few pages, but it could get rather tiring if you're building a big website. I have template files to ease things out, but I doubt I could make a big site coding by hand alone.

Quote:

I blame them for all those little crappy geocities websites <please don't point out the irony here> with 13 year olds going "i like unicorns and am 13. do you like me?".

The content of a website has nothing to do with its preparation method. You could easily have a hand-coded "here's a picture of my cat" page.

I like hand-coding HTML better than WYSIWYG editors because I feel more stable and in control that way. WYSIWYG editors tend to throw in a lot of junk HTML into their pages, often causing problems with browsers. Frontpage especially is notorious for its various Microsoftisms, notable "smart quotes". I do use smart quotes and long dashes in my own website, but I use them in a standard way that works on all compliant browsers. Whereas smart quotes and long dashes generated by Frontpage tend to show up properly only in Internet Explorer, and in all the rest as question marks.

Cofffee · 07-27-2003, 03:00 PM

Hand-coded for me. For me, WYSIWYG editors seem to produce the most unspeakably horrible formatting.

If there's multiple pages, I create a template html file and make a new copy and rename it for each new page.

If it's a huge site, I would probably use server-side includes with a master page template... but that's not really my ballgame, so I've never had to resort to this.

Free Thinkr · 07-27-2003, 03:20 PM

Actually, a friend of mine has a job at school building and maintaining the school web site (Purdue). He says he's come to appreciate dreamweaver. I pointed out the horrible formatting those things produce, and he said he'd get fired for going too slow hand editing. So, my answer is that I hand code myself, but I suppose that if I did a large site, I'd be forced to look into WYSIWYG editors.

Undercurrent · 07-27-2003, 06:27 PM

Hand code. Period. Adam Smith's invisible hand has yet to create a worthwhile WYSIWYG editor that produces XHTML strict code.

At most I use a "specialty" text editor, that still lets you see and control the code, but makes the tags a different colour for an easy read, and maybe has some useful macros.

Mecha_Dude · 07-27-2003, 06:51 PM

I guess I'm a hand-coder, though I usually use an HTML editor (thing undercurrent is describing)

View Poll Results: Do you code the HTML manually or do you use a WYSIWYG editor?
I always code the HTML manually	47	65.28%
I always use a WYSIWYG editor	1	1.39%
I use a WYSIWYG editor and then manually correct its HTML output	15	20.83%
I code the HTML manually for some sites, and use a WYSIWYG editor for others	9	12.50%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

07-27-2003, 10:11 AM	#1
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Hand-Coding HTML vs WYSIWYG Editors For those of you who have websites: do you prefer to code the HTML manually, using a text editor of some sort, or do you prefer to use a WYSIWYG tool such as Macromedia Dreamweaver? Or do you use a combination of the two? Or do you use the one solution for a particular website, and the other for a different kind of website? For my part, I code the HTML manually for my small personal website, but if I were to build a large one, I'd use a WYSIWYG editor (I have FrontPage 2002).

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07-27-2003, 10:53 AM	#2
lisarea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 5,550	My answer ain't thar. I have macros I've written in NoteTab that I use to for one-off pages, small to medium sized sites, and maintenance. I've pretty thoroughly tested the code and have a few basic CSSs I can tweak that I've also tested on a variety of platforms and browsers, so I consider the code 'safe,' and no, I don't have any interest in doing the extra typing. I rarely hand-code a page completely in terms of actually typing in the tags and stuff. (Though I did do just that the day before yesterday, after which I thought to myself, "Hey. Why did I just do that?") For larger corporate sites and such, I've generally used a tool, but not a WYSIWYG editor. The last time I was doing that for clients, I was using Zope and ArsDigita ACS. I'm pretty big on developing sites so they're portable and maintainable, and I think that using a WYSIWYG tool tends to distract from that. I find it helpful, as such, to separate the code from the design--leaving the actual design elements strictly in a stylesheet, and organizing and tagging the content logically. I'd imagine the temptation in a WYSIWYG would be to add design elements as you're going along, without considering the overall site design and presentation of the information. And even if you are not building a big database-driven site, IMO, it helps to have your content organized in such a way that, if your site did some day become large enough to justify that, you could search on pseudo tags to pull out of the HTML and dump in wholesale.

07-27-2003, 11:02 AM	#3
TinFoilGrrl Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tatooine Posts: 43	By hand, with BBEdit. Actually, I use BBEdit for HTML, coding, writing, and stripping the text from Microsoft Word docs. It's the best reason I know to own a Mac.

07-27-2003, 12:51 PM	#4
Hedwig Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,921	I'm more familiar with doing the HTML coding myself so that's how I feel most comfortable. I'm learning to appreciate builders like Dreamweaver (though the sonofabitch program doesn't always work the way I would like and I have to go in and correct shit manually.)

07-27-2003, 02:24 PM	#5
ju'iblex Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Australia and beyond the realms of Gehenna Posts: 6,035	By hand! Microsoft Thingy and Macromedia Dreamweaver are the utter banes of my existence. I. Hate. Them. I blame them for all those little crappy geocities websites <please don't point out the irony here> with 13 year olds going "i like unicorns and am 13. do you like me?". <meta name="microsoft" content="null">

07-27-2003, 03:00 PM	#7
Cofffee Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pickering, ON, CA Posts: 447	Hand-coded for me. For me, WYSIWYG editors seem to produce the most unspeakably horrible formatting. If there's multiple pages, I create a template html file and make a new copy and rename it for each new page. If it's a huge site, I would probably use server-side includes with a master page template... but that's not really my ballgame, so I've never had to resort to this.

07-27-2003, 03:20 PM	#8
Free Thinkr Banned Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,379	Actually, a friend of mine has a job at school building and maintaining the school web site (Purdue). He says he's come to appreciate dreamweaver. I pointed out the horrible formatting those things produce, and he said he'd get fired for going too slow hand editing. So, my answer is that I hand code myself, but I suppose that if I did a large site, I'd be forced to look into WYSIWYG editors.

07-27-2003, 06:27 PM	#9
Undercurrent Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 2,362	Hand code. Period. Adam Smith's invisible hand has yet to create a worthwhile WYSIWYG editor that produces XHTML strict code. At most I use a "specialty" text editor, that still lets you see and control the code, but makes the tags a different colour for an easy read, and maybe has some useful macros.

07-27-2003, 06:51 PM	#10
Mecha_Dude Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Everywhere... I'm Watching you... Posts: 1,019	I guess I'm a hand-coder, though I usually use an HTML editor (thing undercurrent is describing)

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