jpbrooks

But certainly not permanently. Isn't it the "ego" that motivates us to do things? How can a life lived without an essential part of our personality be considered an improvement over a life lived with a whole personality?

The "ego-less" state is not easy for people who are not accustomed to meditation to attain.

Which again seems to suggest the importance of the "ego". If the "ego" were not important in the process of growth, why did it ever come to exist in the first place?

Scientists would explain that change in focus as being the result of the progress in our understanding of the way the organs of our bodies work that came about over time by scientific research.

But "holism" doesn't require the cells of our bodies to be able to have the same experiences that a whole system of cells can have. A whole system of cells is more complex than a single cell, so it doesn't seem likely that the cell can store very much of what we, as whole systems of cells, call "information". And "information" that is stored in different cells, is stored and used in different ways. Neurons, for example, transmit information to one another in a manner that is different than that of skin cells, and uses the information for a different purpose. Thus the "information" that is stored in a cell may not be a part of what we can legitimately call our "memory".

"Muscle memory" is just a "lay" term for "neuromuscular facilitation", which actually involves the brain and nervous system.

No, actually it has been focussed upon because it was found to be the organ where our experiences are (centrally) processed.

Here, I agree. Perhaps all parts of the body connected to the nervous system constitute the "thinking organ".

I have to run.

jpbrooks

Sorry for the delays in posting. I've been spending a considerable amount of time at this interesting website. I'm not interested in attaining "ecstatic" trance states of consciousness just to get information that can be obtained via intuition, but the website is still helpful to those who just want to get a basic understanding of Shamanism.


But if that's the case, then how was someone able to learn that the "soul" exists and how it functions? That is, how was someone able to confirm things that we don't consciously know?


Of course, if our "subconscious mind" contains all of the information that we are not conscious of, including information from our external environment that was "recorded" in our brains, but was not the focus of our attention, our conscious mind can never become one with our "soul(s)" because we can never become conscious of all of the data from the external world that was "missed" by our conscious awareness. We cannot be conscious of all of the data that our senses take in. So some of it must remain "unconscious".

Even with a "sufficient reason to try and find out what 'we' are all about", we would still need the motivation to do so. But what "part" of the "self", if not the "ego" - as it is being described in this thread, could provide such motivation? And if the "ego" is needed for that purpose, why is it deemed to be such a "bad" thing?

Well, the bible may not explicitly state that, but it's still an interesting analogy.

But how can "the Pride of life" exist before an "ego" is formed? Maybe I'm misunderstanding those lines in the poem.

I must have missed something. But how does this relate to the "parts" of the "self"?


But do we really have a choice in this matter? We seem to begin our lives with an "ego" that we were never conscious of creating, that "grows" as we learn more about the world, and that doesn't seem to require our concern for its "welfare" to "grow".

(Or perhaps I'm simply missing the point you're making in your posts. You guys seem to be a lot better at interpreting poetry than I am.)

malai5

Dear jpbrooks.

Let us take these questions one by one.

1) When operating in ''bigger'' self, higher self mode, what you find is that the ''Ego'', as you knew it in 3D self ceases to exist, bit by bit. You lose the ''drive'' you once had. We can assure you, we have all experienced this and it is a bit disconcerting at first.
What it is replaced with, is an impulse that pushes you on your ''new path''. It is a life changing experience. One loses interest in what interested you, when you were in ''little'' self 3D mode. Your drive is only in your new direction and you don't even have a feeling to do otherwise. You do however, have a memory of what you ''were'' like, but no feeling to recreate it or resurect it.

2) Any form of meditation and this includes yoga, is suitable to access initially the higher self realms.

3) The ''ego'' is essential in a 3D life to get you going, as it were. It sets you up for valuable lessons in your earlier life. It allows you to expend your 3D possibilities to the point where you start looking for ''something more'', the what does it all mean, time in your life.

4) Yes, this was a progression from the organ of the heart, to the organ of the brain and central nervous system. Human kind was simply looking for the meaning of ''how it all worked''. In this case, the physiology of humans. The mechanics of the system.

5) Different cells for different purposes, but all contain the same ''storage'' system. The DNA, the physical equivalent of the energetic DNA, but in truth both store information in an energetic way. The memory, is contained within the ''whole'' and without the ''whole. When we physically ''die'', we take the memories with us as etheric/energetic DNA.

6) The term used, ''muscle memory'' was simply to illustrate that all cells store memory, in their DNA.

7) We again state, as the brain is the least understood, it's mystery invites focus. But a processor just the same, not a ''thinking'' organ.

8) All of the etheric/energetic parts of the body, within it and without it, which includes the higher self and the true self are where the thinking is conducted.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

No, religion can be very good. To be a sheep is good and just blindly follow the leader is the only way. I am from the old school and hold that the convergence of our twain mind as the end of religion (all our searching) is found only in mystery religions. The problem begins when the shepherd spiritually fornicates his own sheep.

malai5

Dear Amos.

All religions, even the ''mystery religions'', by definition do not lead you to you. They are of 3D dogma. If the terminology of ''religion'' is applied, it implies a set of rules to be followed ''religously''. You, as an individual will find your own way if you allow yourself to be guided by your higher self, which is your direct connection to G.O.D.

If the religious (shepherd) spiritually ''fornicates''(leads them astray) with the flock, the shepherd has not known G.O.D.
3D religions are the work of man, not of G.O.D.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

When you wake up in the morning you might realize that you conscious mind did not keep you alive during your sleep, or you could just ask what you emotions are all about.

Only for as long as we are not fully aware. You will admid that some people are more aware then others and if this is possible the slippery slope will lead us to conclude that "fully aware" must be possible.

I should add here that what religion calls "The Thousand Year Reign" is the state of mind wherein we are fully aware of our present moment and can relate this to the experience of our own soul history. It should be noted here that what our soul "takes in" is not always "tied down" and therefore will not exist to be recollected.

We are motivated along the journey of life because our ego is an illusion. Remember the famous "carrot on a stick" metaphor here. In reality our True Idenity (or soul) is in charge of our destiny and we, in our ego consciousness, just think that we are. We do this well and get good at it and while do this we are motivated to make our world a better place to live, ie. we want to be the king of our castle etc.

So you are correct, the ego is needed and is never bad in itself but becomes the only obstacle to be overcome before we can reach enlightenment. After this it must be placed subservient to our intuit mind.

It's there and it's all there. Very clear and without contradictions.

The formation of our ego awareness is equal to the fall of man and occurs just after the first trimester of pregnancy. According to science this is when "rational activity" first can be observed. Upon this blank slate our Pride of Life is formed. Come on JP, you're a good man, you are motivated, have a life to live and a song to sing. Do you not agree that you recognize this as the Pride of your Life? Tho same pride is here is compared with the Titanic . . . which was a jewel by anyone's standard. 'Your life' must be such a jewel by 'your standard' and if you don't have this kind of image of yourself the 'great collision' will never be part of your life.

It doesn't. He is just telling us that his ego was 'as if made from steel' and that it was forged by the serpentine fires of Eve (Eve is the sepent), who is the cunning female identity of the conscious mind. Eve in turn is twain with Mary (woman of soul in Gen.2) who herself strikes at the head of Eve while Eve strikes at the heel of Adam (our ego) to keep him/us motivated along the route of pleasure and pain (between cold and rhythmic).No we don't have a choice in the matter and we will never be the cause of our own enlightenement. The best we can do is use the scientific method to extract illumination little by little and peace by peace. The "jolt" of Malai, can be caused by a traumatic experience but can never be consciously sought. I don't wish to get into meditation or yoga as a possible way but that indeed is possible but never to the full extent.

Notice that authors tell us about their story but they will never tell us to follow them or do as they did.

Amos

The shepherd does not know God and can't be enlightened because he would lose the caring qualities of a shepherd. In other words, it is impossible for a preacher to be "saved" --from my perspective.

That might be true, but the end of mystery religions is not the same as the content of mystery religions . . . which in turn is why preachers can't be in their "higher self" (saved).

Amos

Sorry to continue this post but I had to rush out this morning.

Did it shock you to read that preachers cannot be saved if we equate salvation with our knowledge of the "higher self?" As I understand it the "new heaven AND new earth" will be ours as part of this "higher self" vision. Notice what Rev.21 tells us here: "Then I saw new heavens and a new earth. The former heavens had passed away and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no longer." See here? When our soul is gone the celestial sea is no longer because it has become conscious knowledge and therefore the old heavens and earth have changed into the new earth. Point is, same earth, same heaven but now just our new perspection of it.

Later, it says "there was no temple there" (verse 22) and no lights are needed because "the night shall be no more" (22:5). So for sure, preachers better not be saved because there are no temples in the New Jerusalem or else salvation could not be the end of man-made religion (which is inspired if it can get you to that end). Some would argue that the "saved sinner complex" is just the opposite of salvation and this is where you are pointing at.

Golding does a better job on showing religion as a means to the end (The Spire) because for him the imagery of a church steeple is used to portray his ego.

malai5

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amos
The shepherd does not know God and can't be enlightened because he would lose the caring qualities of a shepherd. In other words, it is impossible for a preacher to be "saved" --from my perspective.

That might be true, but the end of mystery religions is not the same as the content of mystery religions . . . which in turn is why preachers can't be in their "higher self" (saved).

Dear Amos.

The ''caring qualities'' in 3D terms are generally seen as compassion of the ''parental'' kind, the way religions see god. This ''caring'', ''parenting'', never allows the ''child'' to grow up. The ''child'' is always subject to the patronistic guidence and will never be able to assume the role as ''parent''. Well you can, if you become one of the ''agents'' of god. The limits of the ''system'', prevent the ''preacher/shepherd'' from not only being ''saved'', but from ever truly knowing G.O.D.

Preachers, if they follow the ''company'' line, are barking up the wrong tree.
Again, the ''mystery'' religions see ''mystery'' for they do not know the truth. Individuals in these religions are still limited by themselves and their 3D conditioned view.
We know that the truth of G.O.D. is a very practical system of individual responsibility, not a patriarchy.

Cheers.

Malai5.

malai5

Dear Amos.

The ''vision'' of Revelations is interesting, as through the eyes of John, what he saw would be his perceptions of what he saw.

Our understanding of a 5 dimensional ''earth'' is one where there will be no religions (temple). All will be given the truth of G.O.D. so none will live in ''darkness'' (unknowing of the truth) and yes, again, no man made religions.
Same ''heaven''(homeworld) and yes, a true understanding of what it is, the place of residence of the TRUE self, your G.O.D. connection.

Just about all religions point the individual to the ''sky'', the home of the gods. It is a metaphore to lift oneself out of the 3D limitations, to help one to ''see'' more than the visable. Religions, however, hyjack the individual into the ''franchise'', led by the so called ''franchise'' holder. We would like to see the signature on THAT franchise agreement.

Cheers.

Malai5.