Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ManM · 04-28-2002, 04:56 PM

Square dance? *ManM runs far, far away*

04-28-2002, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM:
Well Amos, I don't know what tradition you are coming from, but the message of Christianity is quite clear... "Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life." -Troparion of Great and Holy Pascha

Hello ManM, what you write there is good sermon stuff and gives hope to believers but in the end it is through our death to sin that we are born into eternal life.

If we fail to die to sin when we are reborn we will live and die with the unresolved paradox "sinfull yet saved" and this would be wrong because Jesus showed us how to avoid this by example ("follow me").

For sure, I object to your tradition and don't think that after we are buried much good will happen to us. Not now or ever.

Photocrat · 04-30-2002, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:

and eternal life ends with our second death.

(Emphasis added.)

Uhhhmm.... better be more careful with your words :]

HelenM · 04-30-2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rainbow walking:
One of the catchphrases often used in the evangelization of the masses is the declaration that God offers us the free gift of salvation thru belief in Jesus Christ.

But is this a gift and is it free. Anyone who's been or is a practicing christian for any length of time knows full well that simply accepting Christs' death on the cross for our sins isn't all that's required or perpetuated in and by the church. There's a whole list of commitments, commandments, expectations and requirements that accompany this initial confession. There's tithing, attendence, obedience and respect of the ministers, programs, offices to be filled, evangelization, personal alteration of ones behavior to conform to specific behavior patterns, prayer and fasting...the abrogation of any one of these being sufficient cause to get one excommunicated, ostracised and condemned to hell.

I agree that I've never been to a church that doesn't expect Christians to behave a certain way.

But realistically, all people have expectations of other people.

And all the churches I've been to don't say you're going to hell for not meeting their expectations.

Being ostracized - well, yeah, that could happen. To try to 'bring you to your senses' about your wrong behavior...

But not being condemned to hell, no. They don't 'play that card'. They do tell you that God will be upset/angry with you...of course that can incite fear, regret, anger, guilt...but it's not the same as saying you're going to hell.

That used to be the Catholic control-thing didn't it? (Maybe still is) "Do it our way or hell awaits".

The evangelicals I know of, don't do that. You risk God's displeasure if you don't obey' but He won't send you to hell for it - it's the 'loving parent/disobedient child' analogy - if your kid misbehaves you punish him/her but you don't disown them (hopefully! :eek

love
Helen

04-30-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Photocrat:

(Emphasis added.)

Uhhhmm.... better be more careful with your words :]

Eternal life ends with our second death means that eternal life is for the living (or it would not end with the dead of the body.

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04-28-2002, 04:56 PM	#11
ManM Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: NW Florida, USA Posts: 1,279	Square dance? ManM runs far, far away

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