TheDiddleyMan

Hi! I have a question about lucid dreaming. My question is not whether or not it is true, as I believe that has been proven. My question is whether or not it could conceivably have negative physical effects. I ask this because I know that REM sleep is necessary for mental and physical help, but it would seem that lucid dreaming would affect your REM sleep in some way, as you would be conscious that you are dreaming and controlling it increasing activity in your brain, and so on...or something along those lines.


Thanks!

Kevin

Rider

I originally posted this on another thread but it also belongs here too, please disregard any references to "original post" since it was posted on another thread.

AM,

This might be a bit off topic but I did notice in your original post that you were able to have out of body experiences. Now I might not be able to explain things on the same level as everyone else here, plus I just registered to this forum (have been checking it out for awhile). I also have out of body experiences. My first was when I was 21.

It started when I was in my house on my couch starting to fall asleep while I was watching a TV show. My eyes started to droop and then I was asleep. A moment later I found myself floating up from my body, at first I thought it was a dream but it was too clear to be a dream and I could control things and make myself do things in this "reality". Also I could hear people talking, it was familiar sounding talk... it sounded like a lot of people talking at the same time, some of it sounded like a radio station. I "flew" over to the microwave, and then stood. I looked into the microwave door and saw my reflection, my eyes had reversed and looking in the opposite direction... then I woke up.

It was the most disturbing thing I had ever experienced in my life. I didn't tell anyone because I didn't want to have anyone think I was crazy. I was married at the time and I didn't even tell my wife.

A few months later I had another experience...

I was taking a nap on a bed and on the headboard there was a mirror that went the entire length of the headboard. Again I went into subconscious mode and then was in the reality. I looked up at the mirror and my eyes were blood red, then I had fangs. Freaking out I suddenly got pulled backwards on the bed like someone was pulling my legs back and up, then I started floating and being pulled side to side, in the reflection I saw myself fall off the bed but I was still looking into the mirror. This whole time I could FEEL these things happening. I knew when I was seeing and I could actually struggle and almost get away. Also... during that time I KNEW I was asleep... even though I knew I was in danger. This was something new that didn't happen last time. I think because my brain recognized the reality and knew that it was fake.

At this point I came to the determination that something was amiss. I had sincere feelings of danger and regret. I feel that when these out of body experiences happen you fall into a semi-subconsious state. Your brain knows you are sleeping but plays out something that is current and on your mind in a strange way during this time.

Anyway let me tell one more time and I'll stop rambling. I just find it interesting that someone else has these experiences. Also after the 2nd time I stopped calling it an out-of-body experience. I don't have a name for it anymore but I am an Athiest so I do not believe in your soul leaving your body etc.

Recently I was on a different bed trying to stay awake but I knew I was dead tired. This time was quicker, I didn't realize I was in the dream world until I stood up. When I did I knew I was asleep, instantly knew it. I tested this theory in my little reality. I looked down onto the bed and I wasn't there. I looked at my arm and I started to clench my fist over and over again. I twisted my body around and boom I woke up, clenching my fist and rolled over to the other side of the bed. I went back to sleep as fast as I could. I had to get to the bottom of this. Trying to fall asleep didn't work. I was now awake and was too excited about my new discovery. It took me awhile but I finally got relaxed enough to take a nap.
There I was again. Standing over my bed. This time I took a moment to survey my surroundings. It looked like a low quality videotape on EP mode. Blurry, lacking any kind of depth or color clarity. The room was dark and the only light was through the window. Sunlight sort of. I could hear that radio station again, it sounded familiar but I couldn't place it. I walked out of my room and into the rest of the house which was completely dark. I saw a figure standing near the counter, I went closer and from somewhere a light illuminated his face. It was my brother. He looked kinda strange, a little placid. So being the brave soul I am I asked him "What is this place?"
He looked at me intently then asked me, "What are you doing?"
I said, "What?"
Then some kind of insect leg came crawling over the counter, it was gigantic and then a giant hairy some kind of insect started to crawl towards me.
My brother yelled at me, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?"
In a panic I clenched my fist and woke myself up.

.... that was a month ago. I haven't had one since.

I honestly think it's some part of the brain that hasn't been explored. Wether you want to "explain" it or not really doesn't matter. It is there and it needs to be examined and tested. I plan on making further attempts when I have another one. I believe that when you fall into this sub-subconscious state your mind still knows that you are asleep that is why you can do more things in this reality. I still haven't figured out the whole radio station thing. I think that has to do with long term memory but I could be mistaken. The next time I'm going to see if I can access some part of my long term memory to see if I can "see" some part of my childhood.

Although my only fear is that I hear that when you are dreaming and you dream that you die you actually do (no Matrix parralells intended). I'm only going to go so far for the interests of scientific research.

Anyway if this post has no part being on this thread I apologize, but I thought this to be the most prudent place to post. Thanks for reading.

God Fearing Atheist

Hi Diddley.

Im unaware of any evidence that lucid dreaming is in anyway harmful, although this could be due to the limited scientific understanding of the phenomenon. What I do know is that:

-During reported incidences of lucid dreaming, higher levels of alpha activity during REM are present. I am unaware of any changes to REM *per se* (Ogilvie, 1982).

-Solms (1997) reports evidence he feels is consistant with the idea that REM is not necessary for dreaming. However, lucid dreams only occur during REM sleep.

Its not much.

-GFA

anakata

When I slept polyphasic I often had several lucid dreams per 24h, and didn't have any problems. I can add that I'm _very_ sensitive to sleep deprivation.
Also, I have lots of lucid dreams and out of body experiences normally.

Duck!

As someone who spent a year working permanent 12 hr night shifts and 2 years working three way shift from early/evening/night, I've had the pleasure of all sorts of sleep, dream and experiences. I've heard lucid dreaming described before. From my understanding, lucid dreaming is when you're in REM sleep and become consciously aware of the fact that're you're dreaming. In my experience, this allows you to control your dream yourself because you realise it's a dream and that you're asleep in control. I've nevern been able to make a lucid dream last more that a few seconds. Sooner or later the illusion can't hold and I generally wake up in great dissappointment that I've no longer got control over the dream.

But if you slip intol dream control, it's fun while it last. The trick seems to be to actively control the hallucaionation involved without gaining full awareness that it's a dream. As long as you're fully aware it's a dream, I wake up fully and the fun is gone.

However, I think there's a tightrope involved, a fine balance between realising thay your hallucination is in your control with also fully realising that it's a dream. As long as the illusion is realised, the whole thing dissappears in a flash of lucidity and you're awake and dissappointed. I've been known to fly, shoot laser beams out of my eyes, blast lightning bolts from my fingertips and conjure up beautiful woman to have my way with. But the fine balance between dream state and realisiing you're in control usually doesn't last long and the fun is over.

Assumging that that's what you mean by lucid dreaming. It doesn't last more than a few seconds for me, but it's immense pleasure whilst you can control it.

Duck!

Octokun

Interesting point but I'm not too sure about that, I've died once in my dream after falling into water that had strange creatures in it I've never seen before.
After drinking down a good amount of water the dream faded to black for a certain amount of time, not sure how long, and the next thing I know I'm opening my eyes to the sun coming through my window.

But just in case I got really lucky I'd still be careful...