Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anunnaki · 04-16-2002, 08:09 AM

Jesus = JEwish DionySUS

Was Jesus a popular name before the allegded visit from the allegded son of god?

Toto · 04-16-2002, 09:31 AM

Jesus is the English transliteration of the Greek translation of a Hebrew name that is otherwise translated as "Joshua". Probably at least as common as "Jesus" is in Latin American countries.

Josephus records (IIRC) at least 2 Jesus' who were rebel leaders in Palestine.

See this thread: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000093" target="_blank">Joshua, Jesus, what's the difference? </a>

Any resemblance to Jewish Dionysus is coincidental. In particular, the "sus" at the end is just the typical ending of masculine nouns, and "Jewish" is too modern.

Peter Kirby · 04-16-2002, 10:06 AM

Josephus mentions over a dozen fellows by the name of IHSOUS in his _Wars_ and _Antiquities_. The exact number is in a book I once read.

The Greek IHSOUS is based on the Aramaic name. So any alleged etymology would have to work in Aramaic.

best,
Peter Kirby

Tristan Scott · 04-16-2002, 01:58 PM

Yeshua=Jesus, or he was probably known as Yeshua Ben Yoseph, Jesus (son of) Joseph. I don't think Yeshua was an uncommon name in the first c. I think it's interesting that the first priest of the second temple's name was Yeshua.

spin · 04-16-2002, 02:36 PM

peterkirby:
------------------
Josephus mentions over a dozen fellows by the name of IHSOUS in his _Wars_ and _Antiquities_. The exact number is in a book I once read.

The Greek IHSOUS is based on the Aramaic name. So any alleged etymology would have to work in Aramaic.
------------------

Ben Sira also uses Ihsous for the name Jehoshua = Jeshua. There is no need for the name to have been a rendering of the Aramaic name, but could just as easily have been the Hebrew. There was a Hebrew Vorlage to Ben Sira. All of the names Josephus refers to with Ihsous derive from Hebrew names.

The Aramaic story is one of those old ones from old scholarship. The DSS has shown that there is no necessity for it. Hebrew was alive and kicking.

However, if christianity was not a native Palestinian development, it really doesn't matter which was the eventual source of the name, though definitely either Hebrew or Aramaic.

------------------

("Jesus" is an anglification of a frenchification of a latinisation of a grecism, so I wouldn't attempt to build English folk etymologies on it.)

Radcliffe Emerson · 04-17-2002, 07:50 AM

Josephus mentions several different people named Jesus, so apparently the name was quite common.
He also mentions there were several different people performing magic tricks claiming to be messiahs.

04-16-2002, 08:09 AM	#1
Anunnaki Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: I`ve left and gone away Posts: 699	How common was the name Jesus? Jesus = JEwish DionySUS Was Jesus a popular name before the allegded visit from the allegded son of god?

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04-16-2002, 09:31 AM	#2
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Jesus is the English transliteration of the Greek translation of a Hebrew name that is otherwise translated as "Joshua". Probably at least as common as "Jesus" is in Latin American countries. Josephus records (IIRC) at least 2 Jesus' who were rebel leaders in Palestine. See this thread: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=51&t=000093" target="_blank">Joshua, Jesus, what's the difference? </a> Any resemblance to Jewish Dionysus is coincidental. In particular, the "sus" at the end is just the typical ending of masculine nouns, and "Jewish" is too modern.

04-16-2002, 10:06 AM	#3
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	Josephus mentions over a dozen fellows by the name of IHSOUS in his _Wars_ and _Antiquities_. The exact number is in a book I once read. The Greek IHSOUS is based on the Aramaic name. So any alleged etymology would have to work in Aramaic. best, Peter Kirby

04-16-2002, 01:58 PM	#4
Tristan Scott Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southwest USA Posts: 4,093	Yeshua=Jesus, or he was probably known as Yeshua Ben Yoseph, Jesus (son of) Joseph. I don't think Yeshua was an uncommon name in the first c. I think it's interesting that the first priest of the second temple's name was Yeshua.

04-16-2002, 02:36 PM	#5
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	peterkirby: ------------------ Josephus mentions over a dozen fellows by the name of IHSOUS in his _Wars_ and _Antiquities_. The exact number is in a book I once read. The Greek IHSOUS is based on the Aramaic name. So any alleged etymology would have to work in Aramaic. ------------------ Ben Sira also uses Ihsous for the name Jehoshua = Jeshua. There is no need for the name to have been a rendering of the Aramaic name, but could just as easily have been the Hebrew. There was a Hebrew Vorlage to Ben Sira. All of the names Josephus refers to with Ihsous derive from Hebrew names. The Aramaic story is one of those old ones from old scholarship. The DSS has shown that there is no necessity for it. Hebrew was alive and kicking. However, if christianity was not a native Palestinian development, it really doesn't matter which was the eventual source of the name, though definitely either Hebrew or Aramaic. ------------------ ("Jesus" is an anglification of a frenchification of a latinisation of a grecism, so I wouldn't attempt to build English folk etymologies on it.)

04-17-2002, 07:50 AM	#6
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	Josephus mentions several different people named Jesus, so apparently the name was quite common. He also mentions there were several different people performing magic tricks claiming to be messiahs.

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