Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Albion · 11-26-2002, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Isn't the "actual size" of a boat by definition greater than the displacement? How does the "Israeli boatbuilder" think that this distinction, even if true, would do anything but hinder his case?

I have no idea, I'm just repeating what someone said when asked about all those cubits. He announced that this boatbuilder chap had said that it was the displacement rather than the dimensions (as if that made any difference) and threw in a couple of Hebrew words to back up his claim (not that that made any difference to me or the person he was debating with, of course, not speaking the language). If he was saying that the boat was actually smaller, that might help its seaworthiness but it wouldn't help with accommodating all the animals.

lpetrich · 11-26-2002, 09:04 PM

And there is the question of whether these Treasure Ships' dimensions had been exaggerated, perhaps by some mixup of units of measurement. However, the voyages of the Treasure Fleets were completely real, meaning that whatever ships were in those fleets would have to have been seaworthy enough for long oceanic voyages, like going to Africa and returning with some giraffes onboard.

I wonder if the wreckage of any of them has ever been found; I've checked on several sites that discuss these fleets, and I have found no claim of the discovery of the wreck of a Ming-Dynasty supership.

lpetrich · 11-26-2002, 09:07 PM

And has anyone tried to re-enact Noah's voyage? I've never seen anyone claim to try. I'm sure that the TV evangelists have enough money to finance such a stunt -- so why don't they?

Living Dead Chipmunk · 11-26-2002, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Anybody want to put out an educated guess on the amount of food that had to be stored to feed 2 of every kind on this planet for 40 days and nights? I guess, the rules are no eating another kind!

Not just 40 days and nights. The waters didn't receed for a year and 10 days.

Doubting Didymus · 11-26-2002, 09:15 PM

Quote:

And has anyone tried to re-enact Noah's voyage?

Clearly, you do not have the gift of divine revelation.

The laws of physics were obviously different back then. (note: this is not flippant, it is an actual creationist argument.)

Jeremy Pallant · 11-26-2002, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan:


Zheng He's ships reached the physical limits. Also, they had numerous modern accouterments -- copper sheating, iron braces, compartments -- that presumably Noah knew nothing about.

However it appears that they exceeded the technology used to build the six-masted ships built between 1900 and 1909 mentioned early in the thread. Again, playing devil's advocate, the more informed fundamentalist (is that an oxymoron?) could appeal to the "lost technology" argument.

Zheng He's ships certainly seem to have been suited for long voyages, though even the most optimistic of Noachan theists would have to consider the number of men required to crew them, and then extrapolate from that example to the number of "kinds" that could be fit into the Ark.

Maybe Zheng He's men went into hibernation upon embarkation.

Arrowman · 11-26-2002, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by One of the last sane:
That particular wooden ship would've needed really awesome machine pumps just to get all the manure and urine out.

Same ones they use to power the Answers in Genesis website, probably.

Albion · 11-26-2002, 09:21 PM

Quote:

The laws of physics were obviously different back then. (note: this is not flippant, it is an actual creationist argument.)

Still trying to figure out how they can say this AND claim that it still lies in the realm of science.

Jeremy Pallant · 11-26-2002, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doubting Didymus:


The laws of physics were obviously different back then. (note: this is not flippant, it is an actual creationist argument.)

To which I would say "prove it."

Camaban · 11-27-2002, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Pallant:


To which I would say "prove it."

To which was probably said "Well the Bible said it happened, so it must have happened, and if it's impossible now, it must have been possible then"

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11-26-2002, 09:04 PM	#22
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	And there is the question of whether these Treasure Ships' dimensions had been exaggerated, perhaps by some mixup of units of measurement. However, the voyages of the Treasure Fleets were completely real, meaning that whatever ships were in those fleets would have to have been seaworthy enough for long oceanic voyages, like going to Africa and returning with some giraffes onboard. I wonder if the wreckage of any of them has ever been found; I've checked on several sites that discuss these fleets, and I have found no claim of the discovery of the wreck of a Ming-Dynasty supership.

11-26-2002, 09:07 PM	#23
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	And has anyone tried to re-enact Noah's voyage? I've never seen anyone claim to try. I'm sure that the TV evangelists have enough money to finance such a stunt -- so why don't they?

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