Amos

Jesus became Christ after crucifixion and followers of Jesus are not Christians until their own crucifixion at which time they will no longer be followers of Jesus.

Yes, they may have been called Christians by outsiders who did not comprehend what it means to be Christian. Notice that Jesus was not identified a Christian until the crucifixion of his Jesus identity.

I hold that Catholics are not Christians until their own crucifixion. They become like Jesuits (followers of Jesus) after rebirth to spend their time in purgatory for the purification of their thoughts (work out their own salvation).

Jesus did not proclaim Sunday as the day of salvation but the seventh day is the day on which evening did not follow the day and this is the evidence of sabbath rest.

Jesus died on friday and rose 3 days later on the second Easter day because evening did not follow the day on the first Easter Sunday.

I am trying to show the progression from Judaism to Christianity in the change between Saturday's religious rest to Sunday's freedom while at rest in the Seventh day.

FunkyRes

Do you have any biblical references that even remotely back up your theology?

Or are you like most catholics where the Bible is only a book to read by the clergy and therefore not familiar with it?

diana

Um...guys. She asked about the Sabbath--not seventh. Let's not confuse the two.

From Strong's:
"Sabbath" is just essentially a day of atonement/rest. You could celebrate it on the third day of every week, if it struck your fancy, and it would still be the sabbath to you.

The Jews just happen to have observed this day on the seventh day of the week, because "on the seventh day, He rested." (I think...seems like there was another, more current, reason.)

In the fundy religion I grew up in, the verses that were used to justify the Christian practice of observing this "day of rest/atonement" on the first day of the week were as follows:

Jesus rose that day:
The disciples assembled on that day:
The disciples came together to break bread on that day (nevermind that this most likely means that they got together and ate a meal), and Paul preached:
Believers are (of course) commanded to contribute to the collection plate on that day:
What better time to partake of communion than the weekly anniversary of Jesus' triumph over death?

For the record, my family sneers at the very idea of a "Xn Sabbath." They think it means "seventh day," too.

d

FunkyRes

If I'm not mistaken, the genesis account has God specifically blessing the seventh day and hallowing it.

Furthermore, if any day could be used, then what is the purpose in Matt 24 of Jesus saying to pray that your flight won't be on a Sabbath?

FunkyRes

It should be noted that the disciples assembled many days, not just the first- and broke bread often. In fact, the first time they broke bread with Jesus was Passover and I don't believe that was a first day.

As far as setting aside money on the first day, again- that is not a reference to making Sabbath into Sunday. Merely a reference to when they handled the first fruits that were to be given to God.

Furthermore, Corinth was a greek city and not Jewish- and Sabbath may have been avoided there due to the legalism of the Judaizers that also wanted them all to be circumsized.

Which is funny- because when I was an SDB I had many baptists tell me that I was legalistic BECAUSE I worshiped on Sabbath and not on Sunday- which struck me as a legalism itself, kind of like the rules the pharisees made up that they condemned anyone else of not following.

Amos

Hey Sojourner, do you really think that Catholics need a handful of wandering SDA's to tell them what salvation is all about?

Christ was born on Christmas because New Year is midway between Christmas and Epiphany(you know, when the 'new mind' takes hold as promised by the Star of Bethlehem?).

This star was the glimmer of hope that remained in the advent wreath.

In reality Christ can and will be born on any day of the year to Catholics but according to this paradigm only. So according to Catholics the SDA's threw out the baby with the bathwater.

Amos

Yes I am a Catholic and in Catholicism it is believed that the Bible must come prior to us by nature and confirmation of this may be found in the Bible. I think they get that from Jn.5:39-40.

I gave you some references but you may have the look in the NAB to follow it.

Amos

Hello Diana, seventh day is the day of rest in perpetuity because evening will never come again once we are illuminated by the celestial light. This is affirmed in Rev. on many occasions, such as "the former heavens and the earth had passed away [when the New heaven and earth arrive]," "the sea was no longer," "the city had no need for sun or moon, the glory of God gave it light," "the night shall be no more . . ." (Rev.22:5).

Sabbath = day of at-one-ment = when the left and right brain unite without a divide between them.

The seventh day is Sunday because that is when evening did not follow the day. Only in protestant countries is Sunday the first day (didn't I write that already?).

FunkyRes

So Jews who have been keeping Sabbath since Moses have it wrong then?

Amos

No because Jews are still waiting for the day of illumination which is symbolized by the day on which evening did not follow. The message here is that if we are illuminated by the celestial light the light of common day is no longer needed and so evening can not darken our days.

Jews must have Sabbath on the sixt day which is Saturday because the [first] coming of Christ will be the seventh day for them. It will be their day of illunination and therefore the seventh day.