Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Rhea · 10-17-2002, 11:28 AM

Can anyone help me out in understanding how Christians reconcile the comandment ot the incontrovertable error of celebrating Sunday?

lpetrich · 10-17-2002, 12:54 PM

Actually, the Bible does not state how to work out which of each seven days is to be the Sabbath day. If one counts the week as beginning on Wednesday, then the Sabbath would fall on Tuesday. And if one counts it as beginning on Friday, then the Sabbath would fall on Thursday. And the Bible gives no way to tell which choice is the right one.

Grumpy · 10-17-2002, 01:01 PM

Perhaps the commandment should read "Remember a Sabbath, to keep it holy." I've heard some Christians who read it this way. And the Jewish Dr. Laura interprets it as simply "take time out for God."

Then again, there were no definite or indefinite articles in Hebrew, were there?

WRW Mattfeld · 10-17-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea:
Can anyone help me out in understanding how Christians reconcile the comandment ot the incontrovertable error of celebrating Sunday?

It is my understanding that the switch from Saturday to Sunday is based on the notion that as Christ allegedly arose from his Grave early Sunday morning (having been placed in his tomb on Good Friday), that that day became for Christians the memorial for their Sabbath.

Toto · 10-17-2002, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea:
Can anyone help me out in understanding how Christians reconcile the comandment to the incontrovertable error of celebrating Sunday?

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/sabbath.htm" target="_blank">Religious Tolerance website throws light on the subject.</a>

The change to Sunday historically appears to be part of the influence of Mithraism on Christianity. It also appears to have been a way for Christians to distinguish themselves from Jews, just as Islam picked an entirely different day of the week to celebrate.

Christians who take the issue *seriously* have gone back to worshipping on the Jewish Sabbath. That includes some of the nuttiest groups - Branch Davidians in particular.

Sojourner553 · 10-17-2002, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:


<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/sabbath.htm" target="_blank">Religious Tolerance website throws light on the subject.</a>

The change to Sunday historically appears to be part of the influence of Mithraism on Christianity. It also appears to have been a way for Christians to distinguish themselves from Jews, just as Islam picked an entirely different day of the week to celebrate.

Christians who take the issue *seriously* have gone back to worshipping on the Jewish Sabbath. That includes some of the nuttiest groups - Branch Davidians in particular.

Exactly right, Toto!

Seventh Day Adventists worship on Saturday AND do not recognize Christmas as Jesus' birthday because they correctly have identified both of these as pagan infiltrations into Christianity.

Quote:

As with the rest of the Roman populace, Mithraists celebrated the general festival of the Saturnalia. Then, on the last day of the festival-- December 25th--Mithraists celebrated the NATALIS SOLIS INVICTI ("Birthday of the Invincible Sun"). At midnight, priests clad in long white robes would ascend the steps of the temple of Mithra, lighting candles and incense. At this point, the festivities of the proceeding week would formally end, and a week of religious celebration was formally initiated, in honor of the god of the sun.

The first day of the religious celebration was on "SUN"day (from which we get the first day of the week--and the new Christian day of worship). It was the sacred day in which a special service to Mithra took place that
addressed him as DOMINUS (or "Lord").

Interestingly, when early Christians were confronted with some of the amazing coincidences between some of their practices to the pagans, they recognized that these practices were older than Christianity. They concluded that Satan must have earlier introduced these into the pagan religions to confuse good Christians. For example, the Christian Father Justin Martyr was confronted by the fact that the Lord's Supper (Eucharist) was celebrated by Mithraists, in the same manner as by Christians. Justin attributed this to the influence of EVIL SPIRITS. Another Church Father, Tertullian in commenting on similarities between many Church institutions and those in Mithra worship, declared that "Satan imitates the sacraments of God. (Dei sacramenta Satanas affectat. DE EXH. CAST., 13.).

How Christian Themes were borrowed from the Pagans

According to the noted Catholic prelate and theologian, Cardinal Newman (An Essay On The Development Of Christian Doctrine, pp. 359-360), the Emperor Constantine purposely adopted many of the mystery religion rites into Christianity to make it easier to convert pagans:

"We are told in various ways by Eusebius, that Constantine, in order to recommend the new religion to the heathen, transferred into it the outward ornaments to which they had been accustomed in their own...The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church."

Indeed, most historians today agree that even Christmas, (which is NEVER mentioned in the New Testament) was originally a pagan holiday celebrating the birthday of the "Sun". This was later changed by Christians to be the birthday of the "Son". (Note a similar play on words existed in Latin on the words "solis"--of the sun, vs. "salus"--salvation" similar to the English pun on the words "son" and "sun".) Symbols from other pagan religions also found their way into Christianity.

<a href="http://mac-2001.com/philo/crit/index.html" target="_blank">http://mac-2001.com/philo/crit/index.html</a>

Section IV, Chapter 2-partII

Sojourner

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]

Butters · 10-17-2002, 03:39 PM

I read a paper not to long ago, written by a Jewish writer, that claimed keeping the sabboth was a commandment made to the Jews, and Christians are under no obligation to keep it.
(Damn, I wish I had read that years ago!)

Rhea · 10-17-2002, 04:11 PM

Thanks everyone! I've always wondered. So.... this means "blue laws" make even _less_ sense!

10-18-2002, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea:
Can anyone help me out in understanding how Christians reconcile the comandment ot the incontrovertable error of celebrating Sunday?

Sunday is the seventh day which is the day in which evening did not follow the day.

If you read Gen.1 you will notice that during the first six days evening followed the day so it is by inference that evening did not follow the day on the seventh day because it does not say that evening followed on the seventh day.

On European calenders Sunday is the seventh day of the week instead of the first day.

Illuminated Christians live in the everlasting seventh day of creation and so every day should be Sunday for them.

Bible Humper · 10-18-2002, 08:09 PM

Hello there Amos!

Quote:

If you read Gen.1 you will notice that during the first six days evening followed the day so it is by inference that evening did not follow the day on the seventh day because it does not say that evening followed on the seventh day.

Well, evening had to fall for two reasons.

The first reason is that we experience night, if night never fell on the seventh day we would have perpetual light, no?

Secondly, on the seventh day God created man, that day certainly had to end so that on the eighth day man could return the favour!

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper ]

10-17-2002, 11:28 AM	#1
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	Remembering the Sabbath - Isn't it Saturday? Can anyone help me out in understanding how Christians reconcile the comandment ot the incontrovertable error of celebrating Sunday?

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10-17-2002, 12:54 PM	#2
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Actually, the Bible does not state how to work out which of each seven days is to be the Sabbath day. If one counts the week as beginning on Wednesday, then the Sabbath would fall on Tuesday. And if one counts it as beginning on Friday, then the Sabbath would fall on Thursday. And the Bible gives no way to tell which choice is the right one.

10-17-2002, 01:01 PM	#3
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	Perhaps the commandment should read "Remember a Sabbath, to keep it holy." I've heard some Christians who read it this way. And the Jewish Dr. Laura interprets it as simply "take time out for God." Then again, there were no definite or indefinite articles in Hebrew, were there?

10-17-2002, 03:39 PM	#7
Butters Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 444	I read a paper not to long ago, written by a Jewish writer, that claimed keeping the sabboth was a commandment made to the Jews, and Christians are under no obligation to keep it. (Damn, I wish I had read that years ago!)

10-17-2002, 04:11 PM	#8
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	Thanks everyone! I've always wondered. So.... this means "blue laws" make even _less_ sense!

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