Abel Stable

I recently had a lengthy discussion with a man who followed the Baha'i faith. I was briefly drawn to it after I gave up Catholicism, but it was literally my last phase before becoming agnostic, so my interest didn't stay long. However as far as religions go, the Baha'i faith seems to be really on to something. I was turned off by the mythology surrounding Bahá'u'lláh, but their principles are pretty good. I also like the fact that they have no priesthood, services (masses etc), or churches.

The basis of the belief is that each religion is a different manifestation of god - each w/ their own lessons and purpose (from Islam to Buddhism to Christianity and so on). In 1844 The Báb was a John-the-Baptist-like fella who proclaimed the coming of the next true prophet (Mohammed being the last and Jesus before that I think). In 1863, Bahá'u'lláh announced that he was the promised one and then began to dispense these teachings.

Here's a brief overview, taken from www.bahai.com :
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-Bahá'í Principles-

• The oneness of mankind.
• Universal peace upheld by a world government.
• Independent investigation of truth:
"God has given man the eye of investigation by which he may see and recognize truth. He has endowed man with ears that he may hear the message of reality and conferred upon him the gift of reason by which he may discover things for himself. This is his endowment and equipment for the investigation of reality. Man is not intended to see through the eyes of another, hear through another's ears nor comprehend with another's brain. Each human creature has individual endowment, power and responsibility in the creative plan of God."

• The common foundation of all religions
• The essential harmony of science and religion:
"Religion must conform to science and reason, otherwise it is superstition. God has created man in order that he may perceive the verity of existence and endowed him with mind or reason to discover truth. Therefore scientific knowledge and religious belief must be conformable to the analysis of this divine faculty in man"

• Equality of men and women.
• Elimination of prejudice of all kinds.
• Universal compulsory education.
• A spiritual solution to the economic problem.
• A universal auxiliary language.

• Unity • Honesty • Chastity • Generosity • Trustworthiness • Purity of motive • Service to others • Deeds over words • Work as a form of worship •
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The man I talked with was very friendly, and Baha'i is certainly one of the most benevolent religions I know. However when I tried discussing the authenticity of religious texts (he had brought up the corruption of the Bible) he got a tad bit uncomfortable. And for good reason. Since Baha'i relates to nearly every other major religion, it has a lot of baggage to explain, rationalize, and integrate.

I'm curious about other's experiences and/or opinions regarding this religion.

Fiach

I generally divide religions into the positive and negative religions. Unitarian-Universalist, Ethical Culturalism, "Secular Humanism", Wicca, Neopaganism, late 4th century Druidism, Graeco-Roman Paganism, and New Agism. The Negative Religions are Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Mithraism, Aztec, and Zoroastrian.

This, I base on whether the religion is favourable to human progress, altruism, acceptance of diversity, freedom of thought, equality of genders, in which case it is POSITIVE.

If a religion is based on sin, guilt, constant harping on repentence instead of fulfillment, hatred of dissenters and infidels, fear of a nasty god, such horrid mental concepts as Hell, then it is a NEGATIVE religion.

I am an Atheists/agnostic depending on strictness of definition. But I was from a childhood christian background. So my theistic focus for debate is using Christianity as the example of everything I find objectionable in religion.

I see that Baha'ism seems to be positive. I didn't note any references to the things I consider the most evil aspects of Christianity: Original Sin, Noah's Flood, need for blood sacrifice, the disgusting concept of Hell, the focus on guilt and repentence for things you didn't do. I also feel that the god impregnated girl giving birth to a god-human is biological rubbish. The crucifixion would be unnecessary to a kind, just, and merciful God. God could have simply forgiven Adam like I forgive my son for such minor sins or for asking questions. So I object to the evil god of Christianity satisified only by blood sacrifice. It doesn't matter if the victim was his "only begotten son" or not. In fact it is more reprehensible if a man has his own son killed for some stupid superstition.

I need to know, does Baha'i have the evil concepts of hell, original sin, intolerance and hatred of others, guilt for inherited sin, the absurdity of the Jesus Myth? I have never heard of Baha'is persecuting. In fact they are persecuted by Islamic Fundamentalists, the bed buddies of Christian Fundamentalism.

Fiach

PS: In case some accuses me of being Anti-Christian, I will have to say, "you are right." But I oppose Muslim because it is also an evil religion.

never been there

I've known a few, a couple of Persians and a couple of Euro-Canadians. Interesting people, really easy to get along with.

So easy to get along with, I've seen a couple of occasions where some arrogant bastard misinterpreted it as spinelessness. Just for sheer dominance one would try to force a Baha'i to publicly turn a blind eye to some injustice. To their shock, they discover the steely resolve of a willing martyr denouncing it in front of half the staff. Admirable, but also like watching a train wreck in the knowledge that it's going to be gory once the slow-motion action stops.

Abel Stable

I don't think so. They don't seem to believe in hell as a place, or that souls can be condemned there. Hell is more of a psychic state or a state of mind than an actual location w/ a purpose. And as far as Jesus is concerned, I think they consider him another holy prophet, but not a "son of god" and don't hold stock in the "salvation only thru christ" and end-times stories. I don't think they even believe in the idea of sin & the need for redemption. I'm not 100% sure, but have a feeling that if they did, it would be apparent.

Psycho Economist

While I was still in my "searching phase" I came across Bahá'í academically (which in itself drove my mommy nuts) and I've met a couple since... they've been really nice. They have a study group in my dorm, if y'all'd like me to do some reconaissance, but I'd prefer to maintain a respectful distance.

southernhybrid

My ex-husband was a Bahai. Although I was an agnostic during our nine year marriage, I was very involved with that religion. It is a very tolerant religion and one that doesn't seem critical of nontheists. I used to attend the informal meetings, known as Firesides where visitors to the faith would come and discuss philosophy, religion, etc. I had no problem exposing my son to the religion and although I'm glad he is now an atheist, I feel that what he learned in the religion was mostly positive and totally harmless.

The religion does have quite a bit of dogma. Some things that are forbidden are etoh and other drug usage, premarital sex, and gossip. I don't remember them using the word sin or having a threat of punishment but it bothered me that there were so many forbidden things. The religion reguires that one get parental consent before marrying out of respect for one's parents, and has many other little social laws. Although it embraces the equality of the sexes, woman are not permitted to be elected to the world governing body. That one always bothered me. The followers think that each world religion had social laws that were relevant to the times. While a lot of it makes sense, I eventually had too much trouble with the social laws and ultimately with the belief in god.

wordfailure

The Baha'i members I have spoken with have been very friendly and courteous. However, there are a few red flags in my view. For example, though seemingly very tolerant of other religions, they are totally intollerant of internal dissent (read that heresy) to the degree that members are strictly forbidden to read any material the leadership deems questionable or to associate with dissenters in any way.

I have a Catholic aquantance, also very nice, who justifies the Inquisition by saying persons of other religions were not tortured, only those who knew the Truth but nonetheless acted against the interests of God and The Church. I find this viewpoint alarming.

If you are sufficiently curious, I find that some helpful perspective on a religious group can be obtained by reading what their dissenters have to say. There are some sites that may be helpful here:

http://dmoz.org/Society/Religion_and...ws/Bah%e1%27i/

wordfailure

Oops! Uncautious use of back button... sorry!

wordfailure

Maybe I should have posted the 'Alternative Views' category rather than the 'Opposing Views' one, which seems to be mostly outside opposition. There is a link to it at the top of the Opposing Views page. (For some reason I get an error message and must hit 'refresh' to get there.) Lest you think I'm exagerating about strict forbidding, The Open Directory Project had some problems with these categories because the active Baha'i editor felt that he could not look at the dissenter sites in order to categorize them.

There are two red flags here, IMO. One is that whatever the rules for interacting with fellow humans, dissenters are exempted. The other is that authoritarian stance of the leadership in forbidding members from evaluating opposing views for themselves. To willingly submit to this type of blind obedience to me is refusal to take responsibility for ones own beliefs.

It's interesting to me that someone should give up the Catholic Church only to shop for another authoritarian belief system. For authoritarian belief sytems how can you beat the Catholics?

Shake

The positive aspects of it sound good, but as I read through more of the cons I got to questioning whether it would fit in Fiach's positive or negative religion list. I'm leaning more towards negative I think.