Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tgamble · 10-11-2002, 05:39 PM

<a href="http://forums.sympatico.ca/WebX?14@18.H3dFa4KgBPk^7@.f0451c5/0" target="_blank">http://forums.sympatico.ca/WebX?14@18.H3dFa4KgBPk^7@.f0451c5/0</a>

To summarize, it was claimed that God will prevent crimes in response to prayer. I pointed out that god ignored the prayers of thsoe on the planes on September 11. It was then asked how I knew people were praying. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Has to be seen to be believed. Enjoy!

99Percent · 10-11-2002, 07:50 PM

I think you will get a better response at EoG forum.

Keith Russell · 10-11-2002, 08:30 PM

What a lame bunch of crap!

So the fact that 'God' is 'all-knowing' somehow means that 'God' can use 'evil' to bring about a later, greater 'good'?

What happened to 'omnipotence'?

Why would an omnipotent 'God' be unable to bring about 'good' without 'evil'?

Keith.

Badfish · 10-13-2002, 12:55 AM

Why would God intervene, if everyone on the plane was saved by Jesus, or at the age of accountability, then their place in the afterlife is secure, or if atheist then uh oh. And of course any children would not be accountable, so their salvation and eternal life is secure.

This life is just a stepping stone.

wdog · 10-13-2002, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Why would God intervene, if everyone on the plane was saved by Jesus,

were the hijackers saved by jesus?

K · 10-13-2002, 05:15 AM

GTX:

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:
...it was claimed that God will prevent crimes in response to prayer...

That's why God would have stopped the planes. It's almost certain that someone on the planes were praying for God to intervene. If you don't believe that He does, then maybe you agree that the people who made that web site are as nutty as we think they are.

Badfish · 10-13-2002, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
<strong>GTX:

That's why God would have stopped the planes. It's almost certain that someone on the planes were praying for God to intervene. If you don't believe that He does, then maybe you agree that the people who made that web site are as nutty as we think they are.</strong>

Where is this in scripture?

Maybe it was their time to go, everyone has a time.

No, I don't believe the hi jackers were saved by Jesus. Jesus wouldn't orchestrate a killing on this scale, or at all.

God/Jesus does not need to intervene with Gods new plan for salvation. I mean he does intervene sometimes, but this was apparently not one of those times. I cannot speculate. Maybe the plane that went down in Pennsylvania was detoured by God, who knows?

Yes prayers are answered, but maybe this was meant to be for a grander purpose. Or just God letting mankind's destiny take it's course.

This hijacking could somehow play into the end times prophesies.

There will be a big war because of this, oh yes.

In the end there will be wars and rumors of wars.

I know it's bullshit that all those people died, no matter whether there is God or not, I want to see justice, and I would be the first in line to attack or administer justice to the people responsible.

The point is we don't know.

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: GTX ]</p>

luvluv · 10-13-2002, 10:35 AM

Keith, there are some forms of good only obtainable through the allowance of some evil.

Courage in the face of pain, for example, would require pain. Patience requires someone to have to wait for a need or want to be met. Forgiveness requires a transgression to be forgiven.

There are some forms of good not possible without evil. Is it possible that these forms of good are "more good" than the forms of good which could exist without evil? <shrug>

PandaJoe · 10-13-2002, 11:02 AM

luvluv, that's not "good", that's breaking even. The good that is done is completely negated by the evil required. It's absurd to think that allowing people to suffer so that a "greater good" can be done is somehow better than if no one suffered.

MadMordigan · 10-13-2002, 11:19 AM

Obviously God endorses hitting people on the head with hammers, because it feels so good when you stop.

10-11-2002, 05:39 PM	#1
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	Some wacky arguments about God, prayer and free will. <a href="http://forums.sympatico.ca/WebX?14@18.H3dFa4KgBPk^7@.f0451c5/0" target="_blank">http://forums.sympatico.ca/WebX?14@18.H3dFa4KgBPk^7@.f0451c5/0</a> To summarize, it was claimed that God will prevent crimes in response to prayer. I pointed out that god ignored the prayers of thsoe on the planes on September 11. It was then asked how I knew people were praying. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Has to be seen to be believed. Enjoy!

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10-11-2002, 07:50 PM	#2
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	I think you will get a better response at EoG forum.

10-11-2002, 08:30 PM	#3
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	What a lame bunch of crap! So the fact that 'God' is 'all-knowing' somehow means that 'God' can use 'evil' to bring about a later, greater 'good'? What happened to 'omnipotence'? Why would an omnipotent 'God' be unable to bring about 'good' without 'evil'? Keith.

10-13-2002, 12:55 AM	#4
Badfish Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Death Valley, CA Posts: 1,738	Why would God intervene, if everyone on the plane was saved by Jesus, or at the age of accountability, then their place in the afterlife is secure, or if atheist then uh oh. And of course any children would not be accountable, so their salvation and eternal life is secure. This life is just a stepping stone.

10-13-2002, 10:35 AM	#8
luvluv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Planet Lovetron Posts: 3,919	Keith, there are some forms of good only obtainable through the allowance of some evil. Courage in the face of pain, for example, would require pain. Patience requires someone to have to wait for a need or want to be met. Forgiveness requires a transgression to be forgiven. There are some forms of good not possible without evil. Is it possible that these forms of good are "more good" than the forms of good which could exist without evil? <shrug>

10-13-2002, 11:02 AM	#9
PandaJoe Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Posts: 188	luvluv, that's not "good", that's breaking even. The good that is done is completely negated by the evil required. It's absurd to think that allowing people to suffer so that a "greater good" can be done is somehow better than if no one suffered.

10-13-2002, 11:19 AM	#10
MadMordigan Beloved Deceased Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 2,704	Obviously God endorses hitting people on the head with hammers, because it feels so good when you stop.

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