Coragyps

Can some of you that are knowledgeable on the more recent humans (Neanderthals & us) give me some references on the methods that have been used to date them? 14C I know, but what else?

Mageth

I've had success wooing Neanderthals with romantic campfirelight dinners of mastodon steak with a nice vintage 75000 BCE grog. If that fails, club 'em over the head and drag 'em to your cave.

Kosh

Actually, what works best is to for the men
to read poetry. When the N. Women start hurling
heavy objects, you're on your way to homeplate...

This IS sex!
- Lt. Cmdr. Worf

HRG

I've heard that Vogon poetry works best.

HRG.

Oolon Colluphid

Well actually, I rather like it. Some of its metaphysical imagery counterpoints the underlying metaphor...

Coragyps, serious reply: I'll check in Klein and the Cambridge Encyclopedia tonight and let you know. Also, the original descriptions of the fossils in Science, Nature etc would likely contain dating info, at least for recent-ish ones. Do you mean specific fossils, or Neanderthals in general?

Cheers, Oolon

cricket

The Neandertal Enigma describes the use of TL & ESR techniques on skeletons at Qafzeh, etc.

Coragyps

Thanks, cricket.
Oolon: really about any Homo species in the last 150,000 years or so - I want to pile facts upon a pet creationist I'm cultivating.
You other guys: before you say it, it's Homo sapiens.

Dr.GH

Chronometric Dating in Archaeology
edited by R.E. (Erv) Taylor and Martin J. Aitken covers just about any method you want to know about. It is too expencive unless you are a pro' and can deduct it as a professional expence, but a good college library should have it.

Oolon Colluphid

Sorry for the slow reply Coragyps. My scanner has packed up, and I've not had time to retype all the relevant stuff from Klein.

Basically, how the fossils are dated depends on their circumstances. To quote the annotation of the diagram (showing ranges of dates of fossils from 1.8my forward) on p270 of Klein, "The datings are based variously on faunal correlations [ie in context with species with a known range dated elsewhere], U-series, ESR [electron spin resonance], or TL [thermoluminescence] determinations, and presumed correspondences between the sequences of glacial-interglacial events recorded at the sites and the global oxygen-isotope stratigraphy." In other words, there's a range of options available.

Also, from the chapter 'The Neanderthals and Their Contemporaries', under 'Geologic Antiquity': "In every instance where Neanderthal fossils have been dated by radiocarbon (14C) analysis of reliable material [...] the dates have been at or clearly beyond the practical limit of the 14C method at 30-40 thousand years (ky) before the present (B.P.)" ESR, TL and U-series have been used at, for instance, Ehringsdorf, La Chaise de Vouthon, Biache-Saint-Vaast, etc. I'm about to email you with photos of that section -- those ones at least seemed to work.

Let me know if you have specific fossils in mind, and I'm sure Klein can tell us how they were dated. Best thing you could do, though, is see if your library has as copy of Klein available!

Cheers, Oolon