Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clutch · 07-23-2002, 06:28 PM

Gee whiz, lcb, nobody has comprehensively refuted a weblink you provide with 100 hilariously inept claims of fulfilled prophecy (oops! except for the ones not yet fulfilled but included anyhow -- nicely said, Toto). And this makes you wonder... what? Whether other people live to please you, and can drop everything and produce 100 counterarguments in a day?

No, all that the underachievers here have done is invite you to choose a few "prophecies" that you consider the very strongest of the lot, and post them here. And this you have not done. I do not wonder why you haven't, though. To put it simply, you know what would happen if you did.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Clutch ]

lcb · 07-23-2002, 06:42 PM

apparently nothing would happen.I twice said the listed prophecies allegedly fulfilled in 1948. I must have hit a nerve! sorry! You people seem to get alfully serious..this is just a conversation!

Clutch · 07-23-2002, 07:14 PM

lcb,

Quote:

apparently nothing would happen. I twice said the listed prophecies allegedly fulfilled in 1948.

So you did. And I replied,

Quote:

lcb, the particular example you cite is a self-fulfilling sort. The creation of a state of Israel was in considerable measure the work of people -- Christian and Jewish -- who believed with religious conviction that it was Israel's destiny to be a nation again.

You might as well cite the scripture, "Ye shall handle serpents..." and then point to the snake-handling cults as "fulfillment" of this prophecy. The reason people handle snakes (and routinely get bitten, of course) is because they know about the prophecy. Not especially divine or mystical, eh?

When you blithely glossed over this, I asked whether you were actually interested in the replies you'd received. Question answered, I suppose.

lcb · 07-23-2002, 07:25 PM

just curious. at what point do all the prophecies concerning Israel and jerusalem stop being "self fulfilling"?

Kosh · 07-23-2002, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
just curious. at what point do all the prophecies concerning Israel and jerusalem stop being "self fulfilling"?

Your tone here is not exactly that of a "skeptic/searcher/student" who's being hounded by a professor. No, you sound more like you're defending the prophecy claims. Are you ready to come out now?

Toto · 07-24-2002, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
just curious. at what point do all the prophecies concerning Israel and jerusalem stop being "self fulfilling"?

Not all of them are fulfilled. But you'll probably say that is because the end times are not here yet.

What that web site has done is to take things that have happened, and look for some scripture that could be interpreted to have predicted it. There is enough wiggle room in that so you could find anything.

If you really want to test prophesy, predict what will happen next year, or next month, write it down, and check it next year, or have it checked by an independent expert.

Jayhawker Soule · 07-24-2002, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
i am a skeptic/searcher/college student ... No one seems to be willing to address the original website i posted and that makes me wonder.

What does it make you wonder?

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
... its just a conversation.

To what purpose?

Jayhawker Soule · 07-24-2002, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Initially posted by lcb: "I have a closet christian professor who ... cites a website <a href="http://100prophecies.org" target="_blank">http://100prophecies.org</a> and other resources, ..." [emphasis added - RD]

By the way, this is laughable.

Steven Carr · 07-24-2002, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
I have a closet christian professor who likes to obliquely argue fulfilled bible prophecy, he cites a website <a href="http://100prophecies.org" target="_blank">http://100prophecies.org</a>

I think this is good from the site.

quote :-
Bible passage: Matthew 24:1-2
Recorded: about 30 AD

So it seems Matthew wrote his Gospel before Jesus died.

Radcliffe Emerson · 07-24-2002, 07:00 AM

Ask Orthodox jews about the Messianic prophecies. I read an article by a rabbi that says the Old Testament does not contain messianic prophecies!
He says those are either mistakenly interpreted by Christians as Jesus prophecies, or misinterpreted on purpose.
The article said too the Jewish messianic belief is the messiah will just be an extremely wise human, not a man who is god.
The man-god ideas behind Jesus and him being the Jewish messiah originated from non-Jewish sources.

07-23-2002, 06:28 PM	#31
Clutch Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 3,751	Gee whiz, lcb, nobody has comprehensively refuted a weblink you provide with 100 hilariously inept claims of fulfilled prophecy (oops! except for the ones not yet fulfilled but included anyhow -- nicely said, Toto). And this makes you wonder... what? Whether other people live to please you, and can drop everything and produce 100 counterarguments in a day? No, all that the underachievers here have done is invite you to choose a few "prophecies" that you consider the very strongest of the lot, and post them here. And this you have not done. I do not wonder why you haven't, though. To put it simply, you know what would happen if you did. [ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Clutch ]</p>

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07-23-2002, 06:42 PM	#32
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	apparently nothing would happen.I twice said the listed prophecies allegedly fulfilled in 1948. I must have hit a nerve! sorry! You people seem to get alfully serious..this is just a conversation!

07-23-2002, 07:25 PM	#34
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	just curious. at what point do all the prophecies concerning Israel and jerusalem stop being "self fulfilling"?

07-24-2002, 07:00 AM	#40
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	Ask Orthodox jews about the Messianic prophecies. I read an article by a rabbi that says the Old Testament does not contain messianic prophecies! He says those are either mistakenly interpreted by Christians as Jesus prophecies, or misinterpreted on purpose. The article said too the Jewish messianic belief is the messiah will just be an extremely wise human, not a man who is god. The man-god ideas behind Jesus and him being the Jewish messiah originated from non-Jewish sources.

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